A rant about STEM v the rest
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Original post by The Wavefunction
Christmas and Easter "breaks" are normally more stressful than term time with exams. Granted, summer is way too long. But, I'm not comparing degrees and working life.
Hmm, you just did!
Original post by The Wavefunction
Intense manual labour and studying are very hard to compare, both are difficult in very different ways.
Anyway, I'm not looking to pick a fight with you (I get tired of the way so many threads on this site turn into childish squabbles). You have three basic choices (1) continue as you are, or (2) change to an "easier" degree, or (3) quit and get a job. So the study versus working life comparison isn't irrelevant.
And, just as studying a humanities subject is a different challenge to studying a science subject, working is a different challenge to studying at university. But, ultimately, I'd say university life is generally easier than working life.
Original post by Binary Freak
1 increment to my post count and a rep. Obviously.
And what does that achieve?
Original post by Moonstruck16
Thing is, mate, you are not every sixth-form student in the whole entire world.
I didn't study humanities at A-level (apart from a language but that is a whole different category) but I did study them at GCSE. Yes geography and RE were absolute walks in the park but I was never, ever good at history. On the other hand, biology and chemistry were equally walks in the park. So was physics but the fact that I hated it didn't make it seem as easy. Maths was my weakest of the science subjects and even though I got an A, it was not a relaxing process.
Now let's take it to A-level. People ALWAYS complained about chemistry but I could do it with my eyes closed. Show me an A-level history paper and I was like nope. People find different things easy and hard.
Whilst you may think that all humanities students a village idiots because you can breeze through them, for other people they are hard and they will find what you find hard easy.
Now to the most important bit, does the fact that I essentially slept my way through GCSE geography and A-level chemistry affect your life at all? No. Will me ranting about people saying STEM and non-STEM subjects make any difference to your tomorrow? No it won't.
I'm sorry that you were insulted but I was not intending to be insulting to your personally and I personally do not think that I was.
I didn't study humanities at A-level (apart from a language but that is a whole different category) but I did study them at GCSE. Yes geography and RE were absolute walks in the park but I was never, ever good at history. On the other hand, biology and chemistry were equally walks in the park. So was physics but the fact that I hated it didn't make it seem as easy. Maths was my weakest of the science subjects and even though I got an A, it was not a relaxing process.
Now let's take it to A-level. People ALWAYS complained about chemistry but I could do it with my eyes closed. Show me an A-level history paper and I was like nope. People find different things easy and hard.
Whilst you may think that all humanities students a village idiots because you can breeze through them, for other people they are hard and they will find what you find hard easy.
Now to the most important bit, does the fact that I essentially slept my way through GCSE geography and A-level chemistry affect your life at all? No. Will me ranting about people saying STEM and non-STEM subjects make any difference to your tomorrow? No it won't.
I'm sorry that you were insulted but I was not intending to be insulting to your personally and I personally do not think that I was.
I'm the opposite of you.
I can do any essay based subject with ease but absolutely hate science and maths. And then I have friends who have a natural acumen for maths and have breezed through maths and further maths.
Poor OP, suffering from the victim complex.
Perhaps should have chosen a subject at uni he would have enjoyed and not seen as a 'burden.'
Wow look at these stem kids with hard ons
Original post by Quantex
I'm a STEM student in my final year. I want that first and am putting in around 50+ hours a week to get it. Difficult, hard, time consuming? Nah.
One of my current housemates works on a road crew. It's generally 60 hours a week in 12 hour shifts. Often at night. The transition from day to night shifts involves 1 day off, that's tough on the body. It often involves heavy physical work, its dirty and its done in all weathers. That's difficult and hard work.
I've done comparable jobs before. They are, in their own way, very satisfying but take far more out of you than sitting on your arse all day. So when I hear students, generally the middles class precious ones, complaining about how difficult university is, it is hard to take them seriously. Exams periods aside, the cycle of lectures, labs, reports, etc. are more tedious than it is difficult.
One of my current housemates works on a road crew. It's generally 60 hours a week in 12 hour shifts. Often at night. The transition from day to night shifts involves 1 day off, that's tough on the body. It often involves heavy physical work, its dirty and its done in all weathers. That's difficult and hard work.
I've done comparable jobs before. They are, in their own way, very satisfying but take far more out of you than sitting on your arse all day. So when I hear students, generally the middles class precious ones, complaining about how difficult university is, it is hard to take them seriously. Exams periods aside, the cycle of lectures, labs, reports, etc. are more tedious than it is difficult.
That's it's own kind of torture though :-/
But yeah, I agree with this post. I would probably die doing a 12hour night shift in anything.
Original post by jimmy_looks_2ice
Hmm, you just did!
Anyway, I'm not looking to pick a fight with you (I get tired of the way so many threads on this site turn into childish squabbles). You have three basic choices (1) continue as you are, or (2) change to an "easier" degree, or (3) quit and get a job. So the study versus working life comparison isn't irrelevant.
And, just as studying a humanities subject is a different challenge to studying a science subject, working is a different challenge to studying at university. But, ultimately, I'd say university life is generally easier than working life.
Anyway, I'm not looking to pick a fight with you (I get tired of the way so many threads on this site turn into childish squabbles). You have three basic choices (1) continue as you are, or (2) change to an "easier" degree, or (3) quit and get a job. So the study versus working life comparison isn't irrelevant.
And, just as studying a humanities subject is a different challenge to studying a science subject, working is a different challenge to studying at university. But, ultimately, I'd say university life is generally easier than working life.
- That was a reply to someone who brought it up.
- I'll keep trucking on, but when I get a bit menstrual about it, I might have a whinge about it all. I'm not expecting the department of education to see this and come out tomorrow to change the whole system. I just wanted to get it all off my tits
Original post by SCalver
And what does that achieve?
1 step towards a new user title, and gem. Every little helps.
My only problem with this thread is that it's quite petty.
Original post by Emilia1320
Fair point, sorry if I worded myself badly. I'm not really good with producing text and expressing my ideas.
May I ask what do you mean by "whole system needs to be chnaged". I would say some slight adjustments on the syllabus could do. Why does is need to affect "whole system"
May I ask what do you mean by "whole system needs to be chnaged". I would say some slight adjustments on the syllabus could do. Why does is need to affect "whole system"
Because every single subject has been dumbed down. You're still of A-level age. With the exception of maths, every subject can be rote-learned. If you want students to learn and not actually just be taught how to pass the exam, every syllabus needs to be changed. Then you can worry about which subjects are 'too easy'.
But as you brought up the thing about people getting higher scores in humanities than sciences, all you actually care about (don't deny it, very few people can) is how easy it is for somebody to get a certain grade and how that compares to the grade you got. You don't care whether you or anyone else has actually LEARNED the subject, not just learned how to pass the exam. This is why the whole system should be changed. Some subjects have been dumbed down more than others so people can get that all important grade that won't be important in 10 years time.
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(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Binary Freak
1 step towards a new user title, and gem. Every little helps.
My only problem with this thread is that it's quite petty.
My only problem with this thread is that it's quite petty.
Hmm. Can you not see how caring about a user title on an internet forum is petty too?
Original post by The Wavefunction
STEM degrees are more difficult than humanities/arts degrees.
Firstly I have about 24 hours of lectures and labs a week, my housemate studying Politics has 8, with 2 days off in the week. And before anyone jumps in with the whole we have to read stuff argument, SO DO STEM students! Independent study, lab reports, coursework the bloody lot! There's no way that the independent study done by the rest adds up to what we do. It may appear you have as little time to do stuff as us but that's just because you're in bed for 15 hours a day and watching Netflix. I have 5 8:30am starts a week, a friend of mine doing English has zero, his earliest is 10am. It's a joke.
I can appreciate that they have their need in some places and they aren't exactly a walk in the park, but they certainly aren't even.
Firstly I have about 24 hours of lectures and labs a week, my housemate studying Politics has 8, with 2 days off in the week. And before anyone jumps in with the whole we have to read stuff argument, SO DO STEM students! Independent study, lab reports, coursework the bloody lot! There's no way that the independent study done by the rest adds up to what we do. It may appear you have as little time to do stuff as us but that's just because you're in bed for 15 hours a day and watching Netflix. I have 5 8:30am starts a week, a friend of mine doing English has zero, his earliest is 10am. It's a joke.
I can appreciate that they have their need in some places and they aren't exactly a walk in the park, but they certainly aren't even.
Yup, the dole line.
But seriously, if you do the right STEM degree then you will print money whereas almost all arts students will struggle to find a half decent job.
Original post by The Wavefunction
STEM degrees are more difficult than humanities/arts degrees.
Firstly I have about 24 hours of lectures and labs a week, my housemate studying Politics has 8, with 2 days off in the week. And before anyone jumps in with the whole we have to read stuff argument, SO DO STEM students! Independent study, lab reports, coursework the bloody lot! There's no way that the independent study done by the rest adds up to what we do. It may appear you have as little time to do stuff as us but that's just because you're in bed for 15 hours a day and watching Netflix. I have 5 8:30am starts a week, a friend of mine doing English has zero, his earliest is 10am. It's a joke.
I can appreciate that they have their need in some places and they aren't exactly a walk in the park, but they certainly aren't even.
Firstly I have about 24 hours of lectures and labs a week, my housemate studying Politics has 8, with 2 days off in the week. And before anyone jumps in with the whole we have to read stuff argument, SO DO STEM students! Independent study, lab reports, coursework the bloody lot! There's no way that the independent study done by the rest adds up to what we do. It may appear you have as little time to do stuff as us but that's just because you're in bed for 15 hours a day and watching Netflix. I have 5 8:30am starts a week, a friend of mine doing English has zero, his earliest is 10am. It's a joke.
I can appreciate that they have their need in some places and they aren't exactly a walk in the park, but they certainly aren't even.
Probably depends on the particular degrees in question and the particular university...to say that because you know people who have less work to do than you and are not doing STEM while you are implies STEM is necessarily harder isn't really sensible, and then you also have to take into account that not all STEM students would be capable of doing well with a humanities/arts degree (and some humanities/arts students would be capable of doing well with a STEM degree). It's more nuanced than you seem to be suggesting. Nevertheless it is not like you are working towards the same opportunities, so you have no real reason to feel annoyed...employment prospects are better for STEM graduates after all.
Original post by The Wavefunction
I'll keep trucking on, but when I get a bit menstrual about it, I might have a whinge about it all. I'm not expecting the department of education to see this and come out tomorrow to change the whole system. I just wanted to get it all off my tits
Fair enough. Tbh, though, I think the reality is that most people are battling away against something. People may appear to have it easier than you, but you never really know the ins and outs of most people's existences.
I suppose what I'm saying is that it does you no good to compare yourself against others. I mean, it's perfectly natural that you will, so I'm not saying you're wrong to even do it, but don't dwell on it too long. It won't get you anywhere.
And if it makes you feel any better (and it should) just bear in mind that you're going into an area with tremendous employment prospects. You're likely to be on a comfy salary far quicker than most humanities grads - I'm assuming that's a prospect that appeals to you.
Original post by The Wavefunction
Nothing. Just venting frustration at the fact I'm already up to my neck in work and my housemates having to do sweet FA
But so what if they do very little? Uni isn't about who is doing the most work. More work doesn't even necessarily mean it is a better or harder course. Plus humanities does not involve doing fa, unless you don't care much about your grades. I know some humanities students who work very hard and are up to their necks in essays, etc. all the time.
Original post by The Wavefunction
STEM degrees are more difficult than humanities/arts degrees... SO DO STEM students! Independent study, lab reports, coursework the bloody lot! There's no way that the independent study done by the rest adds up to what we do.
The fact that you think the time the typical student spends studying should be the or even a criterion by which students choose what to study is depressing.
edit: I would rather be a thoughtful, well-adjusted, and intelligent English student, who really engages with his subject, than a maths student who grinds through a subject he chose just so he could boast about how difficult his subject is and how many hours he spends studying.
(edited 8 years ago)
The only time I really get bothered about my friends who don't do STEM subjects complaining is when they're like 'Aw I have a 9am' Good for you I have five and I'm a night owl this actually hurts me. Or like 'I have one exam at the end of study leave this is the worst' I had all four of my major closed-book exams in 10 days. Which is an entire years worth of four modules. In ten days. I was genuinely so ill that week. I get it's still stressful and all, and the Law students actually had it worse than we did, they had three major exams in three days, but I just had zero sympathy because I would've killed for an extra couple of weeks to study. Generally though my friends on other courses work really hard and the thing is, if you're doing a STEM course which generally has a lot of hours you're getting significantly better value for money than arts folks. I don't think it's fair they have to pay as much as we do when we have access to labs and loads of teaching hours and the like and they get...8 hours of lectures a week and still have to buy their own books.
Original post by aspirinpharmacist
The only time I really get bothered about my friends who don't do STEM subjects complaining is when they're like 'Aw I have a 9am' Good for you I have five and I'm a night owl this actually hurts me. Or like 'I have one exam at the end of study leave this is the worst' I had all four of my major closed-book exams in 10 days. Which is an entire years worth of four modules. In ten days. I was genuinely so ill that week. I get it's still stressful and all, and the Law students actually had it worse than we did, they had three major exams in three days, but I just had zero sympathy because I would've killed for an extra couple of weeks to study. Generally though my friends on other courses work really hard and the thing is, if you're doing a STEM course which generally has a lot of hours you're getting significantly better value for money than arts folks. I don't think it's fair they have to pay as much as we do when we have access to labs and loads of teaching hours and the like and they get...8 hours of lectures a week and still have to buy their own books.
agreed.get hospital placement?
My problem with a lot of students who read STEM subjects is their simplistic view on education and at often times, the real world.
You assume that longer hours = tough. Investment Banking (M&A in particular) has extremely long hours but the work isn't tough when compared to, say, heart surgery. Agreeing first on what is considered 'difficult' would be wise. Secondly, your knowledge of STEM subjects seems very basic. Doing Latin for six to eight hours a day isn't necessarily a walk in the park.
But I grant that from an employment perspective I would always favour an Engineering student over, say, someone who read Politics. But that's personal bias.
You assume that longer hours = tough. Investment Banking (M&A in particular) has extremely long hours but the work isn't tough when compared to, say, heart surgery. Agreeing first on what is considered 'difficult' would be wise. Secondly, your knowledge of STEM subjects seems very basic. Doing Latin for six to eight hours a day isn't necessarily a walk in the park.
But I grant that from an employment perspective I would always favour an Engineering student over, say, someone who read Politics. But that's personal bias.
Original post by trustmeimlying1
agreed.get hospital placement?
Indeed I did. How's pharmacy going for you?
Original post by aspirinpharmacist
Indeed I did. How's pharmacy going for you?
sexier.
3rd year now. considering hospital pre reg over there or here. if I do it over there in england I have to do a GPHC exam not a PSNI one so idk...might be isolating myself. but be nice to get to know somewhere different and apparently yeer ahead in hospital ****e.
besides I need to fulfil my lifelong goal of meeting you.
hows the devil that is final year treating yeh aspirin
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