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The idea that the bikini is just as much a form of oppression as the burqa is crap
Many of you have probably seen this image:
Whenever I see it posted online it usually gets many responses like "omg so true wow xddd". It is usually of that kind of caliber anyway.
But the idea that the bikini is just as much a form of oppression as the burqa, niqab, hijab, or any kind of Islamic veil, is totally ill-thought out rubbish. It's also the kind of moral relativist trite that has really doesn't deserve any consideration of credibility.
First of all, women generally wear bikinis when they're at the beach, swimming, or sunbathing. They don't really walk around the streets in them. The bikini is perfectly suited for swimming and enjoying the sun's rays. Men also wear very scant clothing for the situations women wear bikinis. You'd very much struggle to do any of these activities in any form of Islamic veil. It stops women from being able to enjoy them.
Here is a little test that proves that Islamic veils are a form of patriarchal oppression on women, while bikinis aren't: If men didn't exist, would women wear burqas at the beach or when swimming? Is the burqa practical in the situations where a bikini is generally worn? Because, I reckon that if men didn't exist, women wouldn't be wearing veils on the beach or while swimming. They would be wearing very little, if anything, as clothes are not practical for these activities.
Futhermore, the Byzantines invented the veil as way of stopping other men from stealing or "enjoying" their women. They viewed women as chattel, and the veil was used to make it easier to keep them as property. Many Islamic cultures embraced this and Islam helped to keep this tradition going as it became considered part of the religion. The veil is a symbol of oppression just as much as the shackle and chains.
On the other hand, the bikini or any skimpy clothing that women wear certainly doesn't exist to help men keep women as their property. The female form is often very beautiful, and skimpy clothing is a way for women (who are willing and enjoy such attention) to celebrate their beauty. To call this "oppression" is utterly idiotic. It is not showing them as property, and it is not showing them as nothing more than sex objects any more than wearing Adidas clothing is showing you as nothing more than as an advert for Adidas.
The veil also objectifies women far more than the bikini. The term "objectify" is usually used in a way that is totally hyperbolic. The idea that if a woman wears a bikini he see's her as an object is just disingenuous. A man finding a woman physically attractive is not the same thing as him seeing her as an object. A man can enjoy looking at a woman while at the same time understanding that she's a human being. The bikini is also worn by a woman on her own terms.
On the other hand, many women who wear the veil are forced to. The idea that it is worn just "because it's their faith" is also just totally disingenuous. Religions and their customs don't exist in a vacuum. There are reasons why the veil came into use, and those reasons include that the women are literally seen as sex objects, and any part of flesh on show is thought of as indecent because the woman's body is considered as nothing more than an object of lust. The women's body is essentially seen as something sordid and inappropriate. It is not the men leering at a women's body that are the problem, it is the body itself which is responsible for the lewdness.
I have also often heard Muslims say that the reason Muslim women wear veils is because the men view them as "jewels". This is actual, literal objectification. They are viewing women as commodities that are only valued for their aesthetics.
So no, the bikini is not in any sense comparable to the burqa. Goodbye.
Whenever I see it posted online it usually gets many responses like "omg so true wow xddd". It is usually of that kind of caliber anyway.
But the idea that the bikini is just as much a form of oppression as the burqa, niqab, hijab, or any kind of Islamic veil, is totally ill-thought out rubbish. It's also the kind of moral relativist trite that has really doesn't deserve any consideration of credibility.
First of all, women generally wear bikinis when they're at the beach, swimming, or sunbathing. They don't really walk around the streets in them. The bikini is perfectly suited for swimming and enjoying the sun's rays. Men also wear very scant clothing for the situations women wear bikinis. You'd very much struggle to do any of these activities in any form of Islamic veil. It stops women from being able to enjoy them.
Here is a little test that proves that Islamic veils are a form of patriarchal oppression on women, while bikinis aren't: If men didn't exist, would women wear burqas at the beach or when swimming? Is the burqa practical in the situations where a bikini is generally worn? Because, I reckon that if men didn't exist, women wouldn't be wearing veils on the beach or while swimming. They would be wearing very little, if anything, as clothes are not practical for these activities.
Futhermore, the Byzantines invented the veil as way of stopping other men from stealing or "enjoying" their women. They viewed women as chattel, and the veil was used to make it easier to keep them as property. Many Islamic cultures embraced this and Islam helped to keep this tradition going as it became considered part of the religion. The veil is a symbol of oppression just as much as the shackle and chains.
On the other hand, the bikini or any skimpy clothing that women wear certainly doesn't exist to help men keep women as their property. The female form is often very beautiful, and skimpy clothing is a way for women (who are willing and enjoy such attention) to celebrate their beauty. To call this "oppression" is utterly idiotic. It is not showing them as property, and it is not showing them as nothing more than sex objects any more than wearing Adidas clothing is showing you as nothing more than as an advert for Adidas.
The veil also objectifies women far more than the bikini. The term "objectify" is usually used in a way that is totally hyperbolic. The idea that if a woman wears a bikini he see's her as an object is just disingenuous. A man finding a woman physically attractive is not the same thing as him seeing her as an object. A man can enjoy looking at a woman while at the same time understanding that she's a human being. The bikini is also worn by a woman on her own terms.
On the other hand, many women who wear the veil are forced to. The idea that it is worn just "because it's their faith" is also just totally disingenuous. Religions and their customs don't exist in a vacuum. There are reasons why the veil came into use, and those reasons include that the women are literally seen as sex objects, and any part of flesh on show is thought of as indecent because the woman's body is considered as nothing more than an object of lust. The women's body is essentially seen as something sordid and inappropriate. It is not the men leering at a women's body that are the problem, it is the body itself which is responsible for the lewdness.
I have also often heard Muslims say that the reason Muslim women wear veils is because the men view them as "jewels". This is actual, literal objectification. They are viewing women as commodities that are only valued for their aesthetics.
So no, the bikini is not in any sense comparable to the burqa. Goodbye.
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Original post by MJlover
I'd love to wear the burqa someday
So you want to wear a symbol of oppression? I mean it's up to you, I wouldn't stop you. Just seems very strange.
Original post by KingBradly
So you want to wear a symbol of oppression? I mean it's up to you, I wouldn't stop you. Just seems very strange.
its not a symbol of oppression, its a sign of respect for women's bodies and a decency for us.
OP. I agree.
Original post by MJlover
its not a symbol of oppression, its a sign of respect for women's bodies and a decency for us.
Did you read any of my OP?
Original post by KingBradly
Did you read any of my OP?
I understand ur line of argument and im not trying to patronize women who wear revealing stuff
Original post by MJlover
its not a symbol of oppression, its a sign of respect for women's bodies and a decency for us.
More like a sign of the males who think it makes you any better a women for wearing it, lacking mental maturity and being unable to view women as human beings themselves and not as mere objects of their lust.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by MJlover
I understand ur line of argument and im not trying to patronize women who wear revealing stuff
You're just saying they're indecent and show no respect for their bodies?
Original post by KingBradly
You're just saying they're indecent and show no respect for their bodies?
no where did i say that
Original post by MJlover
no where did i say that
It's consistent with your thinking here:
Original post by MJlover
its not a symbol of oppression, its a sign of respect for women's bodies and a decency for us.
Original post by TorpidPhil
More like a sign of the males who think it makes you any better a women for wearing it, lacking mental maturity and being unable to view women as human beings themselves and not as mere objects of their lust.
nah Islam greatly respects the modesty of all human beings and encourage us to cover to an extent even with our spouse, male and female
Original post by MJlover
its not a symbol of oppression, its a sign of respect for women's bodies and a decency for us.
Yeah, that's a load of BS.
http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/09/15/the-day-100000-iranian-women-protested-the-head-scarf/
And western women do not care. They wear it with pride because they think it empowers them, apathetic and ignorant, insidiously and arrogantly to the reason, history and cultural implications behind it
Cattle rounding themselves up and closing the goat herders gate for them
And western women do not care. They wear it with pride because they think it empowers them, apathetic and ignorant, insidiously and arrogantly to the reason, history and cultural implications behind it
Cattle rounding themselves up and closing the goat herders gate for them
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by KingBradly
It's consistent with your thinking here:
not saying that those who don't cover up are immodest, just as you're not saying that there aren't appropriate situations to wear the burqa
Original post by MJlover
I'd love to wear the burqa someday
Original post by HAnwar
Yeah you're right.
Wearing next to nothing isn't as oppressive as the burqa.
It's much worse.
Wearing next to nothing isn't as oppressive as the burqa.
It's much worse.
You got me there, absolutely brilliant argument.
Original post by MJlover
nah Islam greatly respects the modesty of all human beings and encourage us to cover to an extent even with our spouse, male and female
Modesty has nothing to do whatsoever with covering your entire body in cloth, especially your forearms and shins and hair... The notion that someone lacks modesty because they are female and fail to hide their hair is absolutely ridiculous. Why is it immodest for females to do such when males may wear long, groomed beards? Or long groomed hair? Why can males show their forearms, their shins? It seems to me under your logic Muslim males must be very immodest compared to Muslim females, why is this?
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