Are ISIS muslims?

Original post by alishba-rosex

I'm a Muslim teen girl, I'm not highly religious but the first of many things mentioned in the Quran is never to kill or hurt anyone - Isis go against this, I don't even know what 'religion' they claim 2 be following - they're non Muslims (kafirs) immediately because they've gone against God& peace and in any religion, it's always mentioned that you should never kill.

One of the ten commandments also says "do not kill" - does that mean Crusaders weren't Christians? People who eat meat cannot be Christians? (since they are indirectly killing animals)

The same with theft, adultery, someone who answers back/ disrespects their parents, does other things other than pray on Sunday (all ten commandments for Catholics)

They are Muslims. It's not an attack on Islam or treacherous to admit this. Whether they are good Muslims is a different question.

Reply 23

Original post by Fiduciam

Because a Muslim would be someone who believes in Islam and follows the teachings, he claims that me saying no means I need to re-attend basic RE classes.

As far as I remember, nowhere in my RE classes was I told that the Quran and/or any teachings promoted the killing of innocent people, in fact that it is condemned. Now, if someone claims to be a Muslim yet does that, are they really a Muslim?

You may believe they are just because they say it or it suits your preferences, I don't.

Original post by AlwaysWatching

One of the ten commandments also says "do not kill" - does that mean Crusaders weren't Christians? People who eat meat cannot be Christians? (since they are indirectly killing animals)

The same with theft, adultery, someone who answers back/ disrespects their parents, does other things other than pray on Sunday (all ten commandments for Catholics)

They are Muslims. It's not an attack on Islam or treacherous to admit this. Whether they are good Muslims is a different question.

Fiduciam Please read my above quote.

Just because they aren't very good at following Islamic law, that does not mean that automatically they aren't Muslims.

Reply 24

username1801065

18

Original post by AlwaysWatching

One of the ten commandments also says "do not kill" - does that mean Crusaders weren't Christians? People who eat meat cannot be Christians? (since they are indirectly killing animals)

The same with theft, adultery, someone who answers back/ disrespects their parents, does other things other than pray on Sunday (all ten commandments for Catholics)

They are Muslims. It's not an attack on Islam or treacherous to admit this. Whether they are good Muslims is a different question.

But that's the thing, they're not even Muslim's - I don't know even know if they're regarded as Muslims, but they're certainly vile and inhumane people.

Reply 25

Original post by alishba-rosex

But that's the thing, they're not even Muslim's - I don't know even know if they're regarded as Muslims, but they're certainly vile and inhumane people.

If they believe Muhammad is the prophet, submit to Allah, consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad and follow the teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts called hadith, then they are Muslims.

There isn't really a debate to be had. They are Muslims. They of course don't represent Islam, but that still doesn't mean they aren't Muslims.

Reply 26

Original post by AlwaysWatching

One of the ten commandments also says "do not kill" - does that mean Crusaders weren't Christians? People who eat meat cannot be Christians? (since they are indirectly killing animals)

The same with theft, adultery, someone who answers back/ disrespects their parents, does other things other than pray on Sunday (all ten commandments for Catholics)

They are Muslims. It's not an attack on Islam or treacherous to admit this. Whether they are good Muslims is a different question.

I see your point btw, those are sins in their respective teachings and they go against said religion but they can be forgiven surely. However, when it comes to killing someone (is that not too great a sin?), and in the way that they do? They aren't humans, let alone Muslims. OP asked whether we class them as Muslims, I don't.

Reply 27

BaconandSauce

5

Original post by Fiduciam

Because a Muslim would be someone who believes in Islam and follows the teachings, he claims that me saying no means I need to re-attend basic RE classes.

.

Your reply made no mention of this you simply said 'Did your RE classes tell you Muslims were terrorists?'

SO again how did you get to 'Did your RE classes tell you Muslims were terrorists?'

From his post?

Reply 28

Original post by Fiduciam

I see your point btw, those are sins in their respective teachings and they go against said religion but they can be forgiven surely. However, when it comes to killing someone (is that not too great a sin?), and in the way that they do? They aren't humans, let alone Muslims. OP asked whether we class them as Muslims, I don't.

Killing is a sin in most modern religions. That still isn't an argument to say that those that kill are automatically not a Muslim/ Catholic etc. They are sinful I agree, but they are still a Muslim and we should respect them as Muslims, no matter how vile they might be. For example Bin Laden was buried roughly in accordance with Islamic law. He was a vile person of course, but we still treated him as a Muslim even in death, because that's how he self-perceived himself to be. He believed Muhammad is the prophet, submitted himself to Allah, considered the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad and followed the teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts called hadith. He wasn't very good at following those laws, but he was still a Muslim.

ISIS members are no different. They are Muslims. There is no substantial evidence to suggest otherwise.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 29

drowzee

15

Well yes, they consider themselves muslims.

Reply 30

Original post by BaconandSauce

Your reply made no mention of this you simply said 'Did your RE classes tell you Muslims were terrorists?'

SO again how did you get to 'Did your RE classes tell you Muslims were terrorists?'

From his post?

??? What the hell, I just answered you?

Yes, my reply made no mention of it, because it was pretty simple to infer, if not - I just cleared it up for you. What more are you asking for?

Reply 31

username1801065

18

Original post by AlwaysWatching

If they believe Muhammad is the prophet, submit to Allah, consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad and follow the teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts called hadith, then they are Muslims.

There isn't really a debate to be had. They are Muslims. They of course don't represent Islam, but that still doesn't mean they aren't Muslims.

It's a just a name Isis use to defame a group of certain people or a religion, in this case Islam. They think they're on a battle to protect everyone, and it really upsets me how people think all Muslims are bad. I understand your point, but I have so much to say on this topic. For me, Isis are basically just horrible people

Reply 32

Original post by Fiduciam

I see your point btw, those are sins in their respective teachings and they go against said religion but they can be forgiven surely. However, when it comes to killing someone (is that not too great a sin?), and in the way that they do? They aren't humans, let alone Muslims. OP asked whether we class them as Muslims, I don't.

It is also important to note that in order to sin, you must first follow a religious set of values. Otherwise you can not sin - it's a theological concept.

If you agree with me that they sinned, then you must first recognise that they are Muslims that follow Islamic principles.

Reply 33

scrotgrot

16

Original post by alishba-rosex

I'm a Muslim teen girl, I'm not highly religious but the first of many things mentioned in the Quran is never to kill or hurt anyone - Isis go against this, I don't even know what 'religion' they claim 2 be following - they're non Muslims (kafirs) immediately because they've gone against God& peace and in any religion, it's always mentioned that you should never kill.

Of course they are Muslims it's just I imagine they will be going to hell, unless you stop being Muslim when you sin against Islam. It's one way to maintain purity but I would suggest only the Prophet himself would qualify on those grounds

Reply 34

username1738683

Original post by Fiduciam

Because a Muslim would be someone who believes in Islam and follows the teachings, he claims that me saying no means I need to re-attend basic RE classes.

As far as I remember, nowhere in my RE classes was I told that the Quran and/or any teachings promoted the killing of innocent people, in fact that it is condemned. Now, if someone claims to be a Muslim yet does that, are they really a Muslim?

You may believe they are just because they say it or it suits your preferences, I don't.

You are technically correct, much of what was done in Christ's name disqualifies the usurpers from deserving to be called Christians but... who holds the ultimate definition of what being a Christian or Muslim amounts to, is there even such thing?

Like with Christianity, there are several branches in terms of interpretation and it would be unfair to pick a particular one as the true voice of God. The same happens within Islam, are Sunnis any more or less Muslim than Shia? There is the death penalty in Saudi and most (all?) other so-called Islamic countries, does that mean they actually are not so?

ISIS' leader is an authority in religious studies, spent a lot of time on the subject and will know exactly where to find the defence against any charges in his religious textbooks. Muslim or just a common criminal?

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 35

Original post by alishba-rosex

It's a just a name Isis use to defame a group of certain people or a religion, in this case Islam. They think they're on a battle to protect everyone, and it really upsets me how people think all Muslims are bad. I understand your point, but I have so much to say on this topic. For me, Isis are basically just horrible people

Let me be clear. I don't think Muslims are bad, or that you personally are some sort of evil Jihadist. I don't think ISIS represent Muslims or Islam. That is not the case at all.

My point is that like members of the IRA are often Catholics, members of ISIS are Muslims. You don't have to associate yourself with them to recognise that.

Reply 36

Original post by AlwaysWatching

Killing is a sin in most modern religions. That still isn't an argument to say that those that kill are automatically not a Muslim/ Catholic etc. They are sinful I agree, but they are still a Muslim and we should respect them as Muslims, no matter how vile they might be. For example Bin Laden was buried roughly in accordance with Islamic law. He was a vile person of course, but we still treated him as a Muslim even in death, because that's how he self-perceived himself to be. He believed Muhammad is the prophet, submitted himself to Allah, considered the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad and followed the teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts called hadith. He wasn't very good at following those laws, but he was still a Muslim.

ISIS members are no different. They are Muslims. There is no substantial evidence to suggest otherwise.

Yes I understand where you're coming from, but they're not seen as Muslims (to me) because as I said I don't even see them as humans. I personally would not have the respect to bury someone like that in accordance to their so called belief after what they've done and the innocent lives they've taken. I'd go as far to say id let them rot. (Does this make me a bad person? lol). So, to me and I'm sure most people who practice Islam - they aren't seen as Muslims, make sense?

Reply 37

YA98

1

ISIS go against everything in the image below. There is other stuff too such as not allowing girls the right to education and bombing Mosques etc.

Reply 38

Original post by BaconandSauce

An explanation

But too much it would seem but your reply was meaningless in the context of his post and nothing more than equivalent of mohammeden tourettes.

I gave you an explanation, you said I didn't mention so called explanation in my opening response and now are chatting absolute ****. Save yourself and me the time please.

Reply 39