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Since when did everyone become an expert on Islam?

With each and every hideous attack carried out by islamic extremists the hordes of whimpering, PC apologists crawl out of the woodwork to defend Islam and to heap shame and blame on the West. They take a certain pride in doing it. (Usually it involves an attention-seeking status on facebook intended to make them appear more 'tolerant and liberal-minded' than the rest of us)

Celebrities are even more guilty of this. The renowned quranic scholar Angelina Jolie has recently taken to Twitter to assist us lesser intellects in distinguishing between the Paris attacks and the principles of Islam.

Question 1: When did all these people become experts in the writings of the Quran and the precepts of sharia law, such that they can say with certainty and conviction that Islam is a religion of peace and that ISIS falls outside it?

Question 2: As these people seem to have privileged knowledge that the rest of us don't, what motivates ISIS if not a literal interpretation of the Quran?
(edited 8 years ago)

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They've probaby read into the religion a lot further than the members of tsr who have proclaimed judgement on a religion they clearly know so much about
"We are misled [...] by a well-intentioned but dishonest campaign to deny the Islamic State’s medieval religious nature.

[...]

In fact, much of what the group does looks nonsensical except in light of a sincere, carefully considered commitment to returning civilization to a seventh-century legal environment, and ultimately to bringing about the apocalypse."

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 3
The answer is whatever they say does not prove that they are in fact an expert. This goes for both sides. The truth is, Islam has both violent and peaceful verses. It is a contradictory holy book, just like the Bible. Some of the violent verses do have a certain context/condition by which you can engage in such violence, but if one (like ISIS and such do) thinks the violent verses take precedence over all others, AND there is several other motivational factors (political, societal, economic etc.) it produces the calamities you see today.
I'm sure they've done more research than the people blindly blaming Islam
What is clear that the leader of ISIS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi has PhD in Islamic Studies. Those claiming he does not represent Islam are a joke. Of course you all know much more than him.
They're all imams and islamic scholars in disguise
Reply 7
I don't know as much as I should but I'm trying to pursue more knowledge :redface:
Original post by hassassin04
What is clear that the leader of ISIS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi has PhD in Islamic Studies. Those claiming he does not represent Islam are a joke. Of course you all know much more than him.



How does he 'represent' Islam because he has a PhD in Islamic Studies? I know non-Muslims who have the same PhDs, I guess they are all representatives of Islam too...
The irony is that if they had actually bothered to look into the religion they'd know the Qu'ran has verses like "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" and "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.".

They would have also read about how the most widely revered account of Muhammad by Islamic scholars, the Sahih Bukhari Hadith, depicts him marrying children and slaughtering the Banu Qurayza, or attacking the Banu Nadir because the Angel Gabriel told him to.
Original post by Diffusion
How does he 'represent' Islam because he has a PhD in Islamic Studies? I know non-Muslims who have the same PhDs, I guess they are all representatives of Islam too...


He represents because he claims to belong to the religion. And the second issue may have been that he is not aware of what he is talking about- which is not the case.
I'm saddened that it seems all too many Muslims will put a religion ahead of everything else. This doesn't make them murderous scum like the terrorists, the majority will be the total opposite, but still...why prioritise in this way? Your religion is your business, that's fine in an open society like the naive west have sought to build and nurture, but it seems to me almost every Muslim I personally come across is definded by that above all else. Then lash out when others define them by what they define themselves by. Every other religion wouldn't mention their faith and simply be overcome with grief for Paris given they are our (the UK's, just to be clear) neighbours, and believe in the same values of life as us (again, the UK). Maybe Muslims would collectively have more respect shown to them at times like this if they were on the offensive against terrorism rather than defensive for themselves.

How sad that so many REAL people over human history have been killed in the name of Gods whom nobody has seen. It's effectively brainwashing from an early age basically isn't it, and I say that raised as a strict Catholic. How little value we collectively have for real, living and breathing people. And for what? To hope for eternal afterlife? That seems a tad selfish in itself to me..irony. And aren't all Gods meant to be all loving and that's the whole point of religion? Or am I wrong? So why so much violence? It's all an excuse imo...humans can't help fighting and bitching.
Reply 12
Original post by xGCSE_Studentx
They've probaby read into the religion a lot further than the members of tsr who have proclaimed judgement on a religion they clearly know so much about


Celebrities?!?!?....yeah I dont think so.

I think its a pretty safe bet to say that university students on average know more about islam than celebrities do.

Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by MC armani
With each and every hideous attack carried out by islamic extremists the hordes of whimpering, PC apologists crawl out of the woodwork to defend Islam and to heap shame and blame on the West. They take a certain pride in doing it. (Usually it involves an attention-seeking status on facebook intended to make them appear more 'tolerant and liberal-minded' than the rest of us)

Celebrities are even more guilty of this. The renowned quranic scholar Angelina Jolie has recently taken to Twitter to assist us lesser intellects in distinguishing between the Paris attacks and the principles of Islam.

Question 1: When did all these people become experts in the writings of the Quran and the precepts of sharia law, such that they can say with certainty and conviction that Islam is a religion of peace and that ISIS falls outside it?

Question 2: As these people seem to have privileged knowledge that the rest of us don't, what motivates ISIS if not a literal interpretation of the Quran?


Well these steps have to be taken, since the Police are claiming a paper passport of the "Syrian" terrorist has survived throughout the mayhem.
Original post by ironandbeer2
I'm saddened that it seems all too many Muslims will put a religion ahead of everything else. This doesn't make them murderous scum like the terrorists, the majority will be the total opposite, but still...why prioritise in this way? Your religion is your business, that's fine in an open society like the naive west have sought to build and nurture, but it seems to me almost every Muslim I personally come across is definded by that above all else. Then lash out when others define them by what they define themselves by. Every other religion wouldn't mention their faith and simply be overcome with grief for Paris given they are our (the UK's, just to be clear) neighbours, and believe in the same values of life as us (again, the UK). Maybe Muslims would collectively have more respect shown to them at times like this if they were on the offensive against terrorism rather than defensive for themselves.

How sad that so many REAL people over human history have been killed in the name of Gods whom nobody has seen. It's effectively brainwashing from an early age basically isn't it, and I say that raised as a strict Catholic. How little value we collectively have for real, living and breathing people. And for what? To hope for eternal afterlife? That seems a tad selfish in itself to me..irony. And aren't all Gods meant to be all loving and that's the whole point of religion? Or am I wrong? So why so much violence? It's all an excuse imo...humans can't help fighting and bitching.


If us as Muslims don't defend our own religion, who will?
Original post by samina_ay
If us as Muslims don't defend our own religion, who will?


Left wingers. All day, every day. I thought I was one but doubting now.

Conveying your grief (if it's there) as a westerner should be the first priority at this moment in time. Then defend yourselves. THEN defend your religion if you so wish.

Priorities.
Original post by ironandbeer2
Left wingers. All day, every day. I thought I was one but doubting now.

Conveying your grief (if it's there) as a westerner should be the first priority at this moment in time. Then defend yourselves. THEN defend your religion if you so wish.

Priorities.


Bad things like the Paris tragedy are happening right now... yet the world turns a blind eye. And whenever the word "terrorist" is involved, you will automatically think of "Muslim". If religion is the first thing other people target, why can't I defend it? hmm. And the people who caused this malicious attack, are not Muslim, they did not do it in the name of Allah.
Original post by samina_ay
Bad things like the Paris tragedy are happening right now... yet the world turns a blind eye. And whenever the word "terrorist" is involved, you will automatically think of "Muslim". If religion is the first thing other people target, why can't I defend it? hmm. And the people who caused this malicious attack, are not Muslim, they did not do it in the name of Allah.


Absolutely agree on the second part.

The world does not turn a blind eye. The news are constantly reporting bad things from all over, not least the middle east. Plenty of people do be talking about these things ALL the time - look at the COMPASSION shown to the refugees incoming to Europe. So that is completely ridiculous. The reason people in the west care about Paris more than others is 1. It's a rare thing for this part of the world (though not if ISIS get their way). 2. There is quite a different in socieites. Many places in the world are stuck in the stone age. Often this is due to religion (please don't blame the west for everything). Then you have the imperfect yet free, open west. Friday was an all out attack on a freedom society. For both of these reasons, people in the west more readily identify with Paris over places they've maybe never set foot in or even if they have on holiday etc could never 'get' a society which isn't open and full of opportunity.

I'm guessing you are in the UK, so why don't you share my views on Paris? Which is more important - a religion or the country we grow up in, people we're around, who give us so much?
Reply 18
Original post by xGCSE_Studentx
They've probaby read into the religion a lot further than the members of tsr who have proclaimed judgement on a religion they clearly know so much about


Original post by defenestrated
I'm sure they've done more research than the people blindly blaming Islam


Woah watertight arguments there. I particularly enjoyed the use of the word 'probably' and all the compelling evidence that followed it.

Same principle goes for you defenestrated.

Original post by Danz123
The answer is whatever they say does not prove that they are in fact an expert. This goes for both sides. The truth is, Islam has both violent and peaceful verses. It is a contradictory holy book, just like the Bible. Some of the violent verses do have a certain context/condition by which you can engage in such violence, but if one (like ISIS and such do) thinks the violent verses take precedence over all others, AND there is several other motivational factors (political, societal, economic etc.) it produces the calamities you see today.


So it follows from what you're saying (which I agree with by the way) that anyone who claims islam is a religion wholly of peace, and has nothing to do with ISIS is talking out of their arse. My thoughts exactly
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by ironandbeer2
Left wingers. All day, every day. I thought I was one but doubting now.

Conveying your grief (if it's there) as a westerner should be the first priority at this moment in time. Then defend yourselves. THEN defend your religion if you so wish.

Priorities.


I get the impression that you think Westerners should only convey grief in events that target Westerners, that, any death outside of the Western hemisphere is simply inconsequential to you.

You seem to want to hold all Muslims accountable for the actions of a few by alluding to the fact that they should convey their grief before even remotely thinking of "defending" their religion.

I find such words to just be so incredibly sanctimonious.


By the way, how would a "Westerner" go about "conveying their grief"?

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