This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
- Physics velocity question
- mechanics
- Nursing students shouldn’t have to travel so far
- Parents making us go up by train when I move to uni
- Don’t want to car share due to anxiety how can I get out of this?
- Edexcel M1 ex2D Question 11b
- What do you think on travelling two hours one way to university there and back?
- Physics A-Level (Modelling Physics OCR Spec query)
- mechanics
- Travelling 1.5 to 2 hours to uni?
- London to Oxford by car? coach? train?
- The Commuter Student - Making the Most of University While Living at Home
- Find your perfect place - all about accommodation in Leicester
- Speed Distance Time for Dummies
- Find your perfect place - all about accommodation in Leicester
- Find your perfect place - all about accommodation in Leicester
- RSM Audit Assistant
- Commuting from Bristol to Cardiff- doable??
- AS Applied Unit 9 Kinematics 2 (variable acceleration)
- How do you guys visit unis that are so far away??
best car for Long distance travelling (advice please)
Scroll to see replies
pghstochaj
My car costs about £500 to buy second hand over the equivalent 1.8 petrol. Mine will do 50 MPG day in day out, the 1.8 30 MPG. I will get most of the £500 back on resale, of course, but ignoring that, at current UK fuel prices it will take a staggering 10,000 miles of ownership before I pay back the premium. That's not 10k/year, that's 10k overall. Since I have driven 14k in the car since purchase, I am already recouping the money, which I will also get back again when I come to sell it. Never quote "mileage/year" as that depends on how long you will own the car, it's total mileage necessary to repay that's important.
why not? he was merely citing a study by times motoring.
Because it is nonsensical, you either need to give a total mileage or a mileage/year for a given time period...
I am not Scottish, I just do a high mileage and like 1.0 economy with 1.8 litre performance 
One in five UK motorists, who has bought a diesel car to reduce their fuel consumption and cut emissions of global-warming carbon dioxide, has seen the difference between the price of petrol and diesel grow to a new record this month, says The AA Motoring Trust.
The AA Trusts Fuel Price Report for October shows that a litre of diesel costs 92.1 pence per litre compared to 86.6 pence per litre for petrol, a difference of 5.5 pence per litre. The previous highest margin was in January 2005, when the difference reached 5.2 pence per litre. Throughout last year, the petrol-diesel price difference averaged 4.1 pence per litre.
Motorists who spent around 1000 more buying diesel cars as opposed to the petrol versions now have to travel more than 2,000 miles extra, costing them an additional 225 in fuel, before they recoup the difference in the new car price1.
With a 5.5-pence-per-litre fuel price difference, these diesel car owners now have to drive nearly 38,000 miles before they break even on the extra start-up cost and begin to enjoy the savings of better fuel economy.
The AA Trust has watched with increasing concern as the gap between the price of petrol and diesel has kept growing, now exceeding the level only seen in mid-winter when the demand for heating oils in the US pushes up the price, says Ruth Bridger, petrol analyst for The AA Motoring Trust.
Last month, glimpses of wholesale costs for diesel and petrol showed a price difference that was one to two pence below what was being charged on UK forecourts. As car fuel wholesale prices are hidden from the UK consumer, unlike in the US, Australia and South East Asia, there is no way of knowing whether diesel drivers are being charged a fair price that matches wholesale market trends.
Government, environmentalists, companies and lobby groups trying to peddle their green credentials tell motorists to cut their fuel consumption. Yet, when car owners invest extra money in more efficient diesel engines, their reward is to see the point at which they break even get further and further away.
The AA Motoring Trust welcomes Sainsburys decision to lower the price of diesel in all their petrol stations to 88.9 pence per litre. Non-supermarket car fuel retailers have begun to catch up with the petrol price cuts brought about supermarket competition, closing the gap between the UK average price and the supermarket average price from 2.4 pence per litre in September to 2.0 pence this month. The gap for diesel has also shrunk, but only from 2.1 pence per litre in September to 1.9 pence this month.
NOTES TO EDITORS: 1 According to the National Travel Survey, the average petrol car has a fuel consumption of 30 miles per gallon compared to 40 for the average diesel car. At 86.6 pence per litre, the cost per mile for petrol cars is 13.12 pence and, at 92.1 pence per litre, the cost per mile for diesel cars is 10.47 pence.
Every mile, a diesel car saves 2.65 pence per mile compared to petrol. To recoup the 1000 extra cost of buying a diesel car, a driver needs to drive 37,736 miles.
If the petrol-diesel price difference was 4.1 pence per litre, the average last year, diesel would cost 90.7 pence per litre. This would drop the cost per mile to 10.31 pence, saving 2.81 pence pence per mile compared to a petrol car. A driver would therefore only need to travel 35,587 miles to recoup the start-up cost, a difference of 2,149 miles. At the current 92.1 pence per litre price, diesel car owners spend an additional 224.94.
The AA Motoring Trusts Fuel Price Report for October and previous months is available online at: www.aatrust.com/fuelwatch
Source: http://www.iam.org.uk/motoringtrust/news/archive/2006/recordpetroldieselpricegapmocksgreenintentions.htm Published October 2006
Accessed 09/04/07
Stubo
the only time my fist is tight is when its up her arse or if I end up in a scrap.
Pleasant.
Becuase it's evidence for the debate, not against.
So on average, somebody will have to own a car for just over 3 years to break even. Most people tend to do that.
Secondly, the article completely ignores the fact that most of that £1000 extra paid for the diesel will be recouped upon sale, thus increasing the financial incentive of purchasing a diesel car.
Finally, it all goes off averages when no situation is average (i.e. it doesn't consider the difference in performance/£), I have given my specific situation and it is clear to see the financial and performance benefit.
Every mile, a diesel car saves 2.65 pence per mile compared to petrol. To recoup the 1000 extra cost of buying a diesel car, a driver needs to drive 37,736 miles.
So on average, somebody will have to own a car for just over 3 years to break even. Most people tend to do that.
Secondly, the article completely ignores the fact that most of that £1000 extra paid for the diesel will be recouped upon sale, thus increasing the financial incentive of purchasing a diesel car.
Finally, it all goes off averages when no situation is average (i.e. it doesn't consider the difference in performance/£), I have given my specific situation and it is clear to see the financial and performance benefit.
The OP wants a reliable and cheap to run car when he is doing about 16k/year!
Stop harping on about performance when he does not want that!!
Most people tend to own for over 3 years...er no! Most people sell a car when it is 3 years old and buy a new one because after 3 years you have to start doing MOTs, the warranty ends and everything becomes expensive with expensive service costs and so forth.
As or the £1000 recouped on resale well thats wrong. Just done a very quick search on autotrader (http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=none&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=FORD&min_pr=75&source=0&model=MONDEO&max_pr=&miles=40&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=gu46+7tn&bodyid=0&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&ukcarsearch_full.x=14&ukcarsearch_full.y=7) for a Ford Mondeo, less than 3 years old. Second one down, 1.8 petrol, £4990, Third one down TDCI, £4995...so you gain a £5 by having a diesel, wow, thats really worth the avg £1000 outlay!
You have always lectured me to stop using opinion as fact and not to use personal experiences as fact. Then when it comes to you, it is perfectly fine to use your personal experience as fact even though a reliable source (which you usally do to me
) has been put in front of you. Talk of hypocritical!
It is clear to see the financial and performance benefit for YOU, but that study by the IAM showed that for the population, unless you do some pretty hefty mileage then petrol is better for break even.
You will find in statistics of this nature, it is very hard to define what is average and therefore a set of benchmark figures is agreed on another set of statistics. That means inherently the average may not be correct, but it is better than a stab in a dark! This happens in all statistical analysis in government.
Graham
Stop harping on about performance when he does not want that!!
Most people tend to own for over 3 years...er no! Most people sell a car when it is 3 years old and buy a new one because after 3 years you have to start doing MOTs, the warranty ends and everything becomes expensive with expensive service costs and so forth.
As or the £1000 recouped on resale well thats wrong. Just done a very quick search on autotrader (http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=none&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=FORD&min_pr=75&source=0&model=MONDEO&max_pr=&miles=40&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=gu46+7tn&bodyid=0&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&ukcarsearch_full.x=14&ukcarsearch_full.y=7) for a Ford Mondeo, less than 3 years old. Second one down, 1.8 petrol, £4990, Third one down TDCI, £4995...so you gain a £5 by having a diesel, wow, thats really worth the avg £1000 outlay!
You have always lectured me to stop using opinion as fact and not to use personal experiences as fact. Then when it comes to you, it is perfectly fine to use your personal experience as fact even though a reliable source (which you usally do to me
) has been put in front of you. Talk of hypocritical! It is clear to see the financial and performance benefit for YOU, but that study by the IAM showed that for the population, unless you do some pretty hefty mileage then petrol is better for break even.
You will find in statistics of this nature, it is very hard to define what is average and therefore a set of benchmark figures is agreed on another set of statistics. That means inherently the average may not be correct, but it is better than a stab in a dark! This happens in all statistical analysis in government.
Graham
Stubo
I am being dumb. Tell me how you will break even?
If you bought a brand new Mondeo TDCI over the Mondeo 1.8, you would have to do 38k miles before you start making a profit on petrol, the diesel costs are so high, it takes nearly 40k before you start saving money by buying diesel. By which time, you would have probably sold the car.
gbduo
The OP wants a reliable and cheap to run car when he is doing about 16k/year!
Stop harping on about performance when he does not want that!!
Most people tend to own for over 3 years...er no! Most people sell a car when it is 3 years old and buy a new one because after 3 years you have to start doing MOTs, the warranty ends and everything becomes expensive with expensive service costs and so forth.
As or the £1000 recouped on resale well thats wrong. Just done a very quick search on autotrader (http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=none&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=FORD&min_pr=75&source=0&model=MONDEO&max_pr=&miles=40&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=gu46+7tn&bodyid=0&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&ukcarsearch_full.x=14&ukcarsearch_full.y=7) for a Ford Mondeo, less than 3 years old. Second one down, 1.8 petrol, £4990, Third one down TDCI, £4995...so you gain a £5 by having a diesel, wow, thats really worth the avg £1000 outlay!
You have always lectured me to stop using opinion as fact and not to use personal experiences as fact. Then when it comes to you, it is perfectly fine to use your personal experience as fact even though a reliable source (which you usally do to me) has been put in front of you. Talk of hypocritical!
It is clear to see the financial and performance benefit for YOU, but that study by the IAM showed that for the population, unless you do some pretty hefty mileage then petrol is better for break even.
You will find in statistics of this nature, it is very hard to define what is average and therefore a set of benchmark figures is agreed on another set of statistics. That means inherently the average may not be correct, but it is better than a stab in a dark! This happens in all statistical analysis in government.
Graham
Stop harping on about performance when he does not want that!!
Most people tend to own for over 3 years...er no! Most people sell a car when it is 3 years old and buy a new one because after 3 years you have to start doing MOTs, the warranty ends and everything becomes expensive with expensive service costs and so forth.
As or the £1000 recouped on resale well thats wrong. Just done a very quick search on autotrader (http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=none&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=FORD&min_pr=75&source=0&model=MONDEO&max_pr=&miles=40&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=gu46+7tn&bodyid=0&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&ukcarsearch_full.x=14&ukcarsearch_full.y=7) for a Ford Mondeo, less than 3 years old. Second one down, 1.8 petrol, £4990, Third one down TDCI, £4995...so you gain a £5 by having a diesel, wow, thats really worth the avg £1000 outlay!
You have always lectured me to stop using opinion as fact and not to use personal experiences as fact. Then when it comes to you, it is perfectly fine to use your personal experience as fact even though a reliable source (which you usally do to me
) has been put in front of you. Talk of hypocritical! It is clear to see the financial and performance benefit for YOU, but that study by the IAM showed that for the population, unless you do some pretty hefty mileage then petrol is better for break even.
You will find in statistics of this nature, it is very hard to define what is average and therefore a set of benchmark figures is agreed on another set of statistics. That means inherently the average may not be correct, but it is better than a stab in a dark! This happens in all statistical analysis in government.
Graham
Graham, none of what you say changes the facts.
Stop harping on about performance when he does not want that!!
Most people tend to own for over 3 years...er no! Most people sell a car when it is 3 years old and buy a new one because after 3 years you have to start doing MOTs, the warranty ends and everything becomes expensive with expensive service costs and so forth.
I.e. they own it for about 3 years.....yes, they do.
As or the £1000 recouped on resale well thats wrong. Just done a very quick search on autotrader
No, that's wrong on the one single instance you have found on AT, that's nothing, it's not proof, it's not even an indicator, it's a waste of your (and my) time.
It is clear to see the financial and performance benefit for YOU, but that study by the IAM showed that for the population, unless you do some pretty hefty mileage then petrol is better for break even.
No, it shows that it takes about 3 years to completely pay off the additional cost ON AVERAGE for a diesel vs. petrol IGNORING the resale premium.
You will find in statistics of this nature, it is very hard to define what is average and therefore a set of benchmark figures is agreed on another set of statistics. That means inherently the average may not be correct, but it is better than a stab in a dark! This happens in all statistical analysis in government.
Rubbish, averages mean nothing to an individual, the £1000 diesel premium and 40/30 MPG values are meaingless as they apply to no real situation. You have to look at the actual situation in hand in all cases.
For example, on my car, for equivalent performance, it has taken me 10,000 miles to pay back the £500 diesel premium and current Nottingham fuel prices . I will recoup a lot of that on resale (as shown by the fact there's a premium now, there will be in the future, as there is with all diesels except the single pointless example you have given...) so not only have I recouped it after 10k, i will gain yet more on resale.
gbduo
If you bought a brand new Mondeo TDCI over the Mondeo 1.8, you would have to do 38k miles before you start making a profit on petrol, the diesel costs are so high, it takes nearly 40k before you start saving money by buying diesel. By which time, you would have probably sold the car.
No, you're now applying an AVERAGE situation to a specific case, which you can't do. A Mondy TDCI will do 45-50 MPG and a 1.8 Mondy arond 30-33....with a completely different price premium than the £1000 quoted and a completely different resale premium than the one given in the IAM article (i.e. it has been ignored because presumably it was easier to forget).
pghstochaj
Graham, none of what you say changes the facts.
Most people want some form of performance.
I.e. they own it for about 3 years.....yes, they do.
No, that's wrong on the one single instance you have found on AT, that's nothing, it's not proof, it's not even an indicator, it's a waste of your (and my) time.
No, it shows that it takes about 3 years to completely pay off the additional cost ON AVERAGE for a diesel vs. petrol IGNORING the resale premium.
Rubbish, averages mean nothing to an individual, the £1000 diesel premium and 40/30 MPG values are meaingless as they apply to no real situation. You have to look at the actual situation in hand in all cases.
For example, on my car, for equivalent performance, it has taken me 10,000 miles to pay back the £500 diesel premium and current Nottingham fuel prices . I will recoup a lot of that on resale (as shown by the fact there's a premium now, there will be in the future, as there is with all diesels except the single pointless example you have given...) so not only have I recouped it after 10k, i will gain yet more on resale.
Most people want some form of performance.
I.e. they own it for about 3 years.....yes, they do.
No, that's wrong on the one single instance you have found on AT, that's nothing, it's not proof, it's not even an indicator, it's a waste of your (and my) time.
No, it shows that it takes about 3 years to completely pay off the additional cost ON AVERAGE for a diesel vs. petrol IGNORING the resale premium.
Rubbish, averages mean nothing to an individual, the £1000 diesel premium and 40/30 MPG values are meaingless as they apply to no real situation. You have to look at the actual situation in hand in all cases.
For example, on my car, for equivalent performance, it has taken me 10,000 miles to pay back the £500 diesel premium and current Nottingham fuel prices . I will recoup a lot of that on resale (as shown by the fact there's a premium now, there will be in the future, as there is with all diesels except the single pointless example you have given...) so not only have I recouped it after 10k, i will gain yet more on resale.
most people isnt the OP, so that dosent matter.
Your example is also private vs. trade....even more of a useless comparison, then again, maybe less so, add £1k to the TDCI and that's the trade price, i.e. there's your premium.
Paul, i really can't be bothered to argue this point, i am going to side with the IAM report because no offence to you but i think the AA motoring trust and IAM report know a little bit more and have larger resources than you.
However, that is not to say that what you say is incorrect, you make some valid points however i just find Diesel Vs Petrol debates so dull and boring!
It is something for the OP and everyone else to think about rather than something that needs to be solved per se. If it made people reading this forum think that maybe diesel is not the best option if you are doing low to average mileage then all is well. If not, then i failed, but hey worth a try.
Diesel has its place and its good, but at the end of the day, diesel is expensive to run and this report has shown that for the average joe, they may find it difficult to break even with diesel, thus something to think about before buying diesel.
So, as usual, agree to disagree?!
Love and kisses,
Graham
However, that is not to say that what you say is incorrect, you make some valid points however i just find Diesel Vs Petrol debates so dull and boring!
It is something for the OP and everyone else to think about rather than something that needs to be solved per se. If it made people reading this forum think that maybe diesel is not the best option if you are doing low to average mileage then all is well. If not, then i failed, but hey worth a try.
Diesel has its place and its good, but at the end of the day, diesel is expensive to run and this report has shown that for the average joe, they may find it difficult to break even with diesel, thus something to think about before buying diesel.
So, as usual, agree to disagree?!
Love and kisses,
Graham
Related discussions
- Physics velocity question
- mechanics
- Nursing students shouldn’t have to travel so far
- Parents making us go up by train when I move to uni
- Don’t want to car share due to anxiety how can I get out of this?
- Edexcel M1 ex2D Question 11b
- What do you think on travelling two hours one way to university there and back?
- Physics A-Level (Modelling Physics OCR Spec query)
- mechanics
- Travelling 1.5 to 2 hours to uni?
- London to Oxford by car? coach? train?
- The Commuter Student - Making the Most of University While Living at Home
- Find your perfect place - all about accommodation in Leicester
- Speed Distance Time for Dummies
- Find your perfect place - all about accommodation in Leicester
- Find your perfect place - all about accommodation in Leicester
- RSM Audit Assistant
- Commuting from Bristol to Cardiff- doable??
- AS Applied Unit 9 Kinematics 2 (variable acceleration)
- How do you guys visit unis that are so far away??
Latest
Trending
Last reply 5 months ago
Where is my car parked during the day? Advice for first car insuranceLast reply 7 months ago
Will paying £1,900 a year for insurance as a new 21 year old driver be a lot?Trending
Last reply 5 months ago
Where is my car parked during the day? Advice for first car insuranceLast reply 7 months ago
Will paying £1,900 a year for insurance as a new 21 year old driver be a lot?
