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There are Muslim Extremists and Secular Extremists

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Original post by KingBradly
As societies progress, so do their understandings of ethics. ....
Many countries have not reached this stage. This is either because of poor education, or because it has been stifled by a theocratic system, or both. They have not managed to look at morality as something which is based on pragmatic ethics.


"They have not managed to look at morality as something which is based on pragmatic ethics"


You have summed up the western approach. "Universal Values" is a millimetre away from "Might is Right", which is the most pragmatic of ethics.
Original post by newpersonage
"They have not managed to look at morality as something which is based on pragmatic ethics"


You have summed up the western approach. "Universal Values" is a millimetre away from "Might is Right", which is the most pragmatic of ethics.


"Might is right" is not pragmatic ethics. This is pragmatic ethics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatic_ethics

"They have not managed to look at morality as something which is based on pragmatic ethics"

Perhaps I said that wrong. Of course, people view morality differently depending on the society and culture, but morality is least full of contradictions when it is given an ethically pragmatic approach. If you don't agree with this, then I can only assume that you see no improvement in our approach to ethics since the beginning of the enlightenment. Cultural relativism is actually very conservative, as it encourages stagnation. It's like people such as yourself think progressiveness is for Western folks like ourselves, but not other cultures. A real "us and them" mentality.

Also, how do you explain the fact that in many countries that don't have stifling controls on opinion, and have improving economies and education, they're taking an increasingly pragmatic approach to ethics, regardless of whether they're "Western" or not?
Original post by KingBradly
Of course, people view morality differently depending on the society and culture, but morality is least full of contradictions when it is given an ethically pragmatic approach. If you don't agree with this, then I can only assume that you see no improvement in our approach to ethics since the beginning of the enlightenment. Cultural relativism is actually very conservative, as it encourages stagnation. It's like people such as yourself think progressiveness is for Western folks like ourselves, but not other cultures. A real "us and them" mentality.

Also, how do you explain the fact that in many countries that don't have stifling controls on opinion, and have improving economies and education, they're taking an increasingly pragmatic approach to ethics, regardless of whether they're "Western" or not?


I dont believe that a society that has an ethics based on what numerous people who are thought to be wise believe is "right" is in any way inferior to a society in which ethics is based on what numerous people who are thought to be wise have argued is "right".

Looking at Western societies ethics has been the subject of fashion. In the 1950s people were well educated but would take a Christian model for their ethics because they were taught this at school. In the multicultural late 20th and 21st century governments force fed materialist ethics to their children. In both periods the stupid children believed that they were party to absolute truths. However, Episcopalian and CofE Christians were seldom militant. The new materialists, like their earlier Marxist brethren, are disturbingly militant.

The most dangerous people are extremists and we are cursed with both Islamic extremists and the extremist products of materialist moral education. The big problem with the secular extremists is that they infest the media and materialist morality is the very stuff of the PPE graduates who run government, this gives them power way beyond the power of their philosophy.

Perhaps it is as well to remember that the great achievement of the Enlightenment was doubt.
(edited 8 years ago)

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