Do junior doctors just care about the money?

OP

Original post by Little Toy Gun

A lot of 'junior' doctors are above 30 and approaching 40. This is the age when money is most important for personal development. I don't see why that's an issue ever IF they care only about money.

I'm not sure what age has to do with this and what you mean by personal development in this context - please could you elaborate?

As for your last sentence - you don't think a doctor who has little care for the money and cares only for the job and patients is not going to be a better doctor than one who cares only for the money?

Reply 4

El Salvador

21

Original post by macromicro

I'm not sure what age has to do with this and what you mean by personal development in this context - please could you elaborate?

People in their 30s and 40s usually have inevitable extra responsibilities in their lives. They will have formed a family and they may need to spend plenty of money for their children's education; their parents will be pretty old and plenty of money will need to be spent to take care of them. They will also be of that age to be more likely to trying to safe up for a house/flat. This is without mentioning that many more professional and academic ones will need to save money for postgraduate studies by then. Doctors are humans, not machines.

Original post by macromicro

As for your last sentence - you don't think a doctor who has little care for the money and cares only for the job and patients is not going to be a better doctor than one who cares only for the money?

No. Or you are suggesting that the best way to get a perfect medical system is to not pay anyone at all.

Reply 5

DrID

10

Original post by macromicro

I'm not sure what age has to do with this and what you mean by personal development in this context - please could you elaborate?

As for your last sentence - you don't think a doctor who has little care for the money and cares only for the job and patients is not going to be a better doctor than one who cares only for the money?

Are you some kind of moron? Who is going to accept a 30% pay cut AND work longer for it?!

Reply 6

Awesome Genius

2

Original post by macromicro

I've read several different articles and watched the debate itself between Hunt and Alexander (here) concerning the new contract for junior doctors, and I'm struggling to see why the junior doctors are so furious? I instinctively thought I would be on the side of the doctors but after watching the debate I felt like everything Hunt was saying was logical and fair. Doctors are saying that their pay will go down even though it's been formally guaranteed that 100% of those working within the legal limit will get the same pay as the whole point of the new contract isn't to cut costs but to relocate resources towards the weekend. The absolute maximum is now 72 hours a week instead of 91, with an average of only 48 hours. This all seems fair to me?

The only argument I've read from the doctors seems to revolve around money. They get a good base salary and are well compensated for the extra hours they do. Their job involves extreme levels of responsibility and continual training so I can understand that they need to be looked after, but what is wrong with their salary? I thought getting into medicine and being a doctor was about having a passion for the job and the patients? I was expecting to see lots of responses to the new contract from doctors that focused on their free time since they need time out the hospital to rest and have personal lives but al I see is repetitions about money.

All this is trickery mate. Basically they want people to take a substantial pay cut for work they're already doing.

Doctors do care about people but they're human beings who need to enjoy their lives too - they're smart and capable people.

Let me summarise by saying...

Doctors care more about people that your banker or lawyer does. And the saints and charity workers of this world are not smart enough to be doctors.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 7

Betelgeuse-

I don't know much about what they are payed and the demands but i do know Hunt better not genuinely try and shaft them because they will just move abroad to a country where they will suitably accomodate them

EDIT: 98% voted to strike lmfao. Hunt you fool.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 8

Mutmit287

22

Original post by macromicro

I've read several different articles and watched the debate itself between Hunt and Alexander (here) concerning the new contract for junior doctors, and I'm struggling to see why the junior doctors are so furious? I instinctively thought I would be on the side of the doctors but after watching the debate I felt like everything Hunt was saying was logical and fair. Doctors are saying that their pay will go down even though it's been formally guaranteed that 100% of those working within the legal limit will get the same pay as the whole point of the new contract isn't to cut costs but to relocate resources towards the weekend. The absolute maximum is now 72 hours a week instead of 91, with an average of only 48 hours. This all seems fair to me?

The only argument I've read from the doctors seems to revolve around money. They get a good base salary and are well compensated for the extra hours they do. Their job involves extreme levels of responsibility and continual training so I can understand that they need to be looked after, but what is wrong with their salary? I thought getting into medicine and being a doctor was about having a passion for the job and the patients? I was expecting to see lots of responses to the new contract from doctors that focused on their free time since they need time out the hospital to rest and have personal lives but al I see is repetitions about money.

as a medical student myself I can 100% understand the major backlash for the contract, and if im totally honest it really is not all about the money...

I myself am not going into medicine for the money, if Ii wanted to live a wealthy life I would have gone into business or banking, medicine is a highly stressful profession with long and variable hours, where doctors have many patients to look after at once. complications with patients are common and hence the job has little routine, and doctors take very few breaks during their working day (many go without lunch), and the pay they get for the job they do (specifically in the junior years) is poor compared to other professions.

I am most appauled at the changes to standard hours, 7am-7pm i believe was incredibly reason monday to friday for standard hours, and outside of those times pay should yes increase as the hours are unsocial. you have to remember doctors do need a life, and especially if they have a family! now these standard hours are 7am -10pm (think if you have kids, you wouldnt get home till after they went to bed) and this includes saturdays. the reason why this is so bothersome is that I do not want to be spending my friday evening at 9pm wandering around the wards and missing out on time with my friends and family, for the same pay as when I started work at 9am. you have to also think about the friday night and saturday night NHS rushes to accident and emergancy and how junior doctors are now being paid the same for this time as they would be for a much less busy time.

I just think the government are trying to make cuts to one of the hardest working set of proffessionals in the country, who work tirelessly every single day to make sure that the people of england are healthy.

junior doctors need to be cut some slack, they have worked so hard to get to where they are today, and they are now working even harder in their training and hospitals, and are still having to sit routine examinations alongside a 40-50+ hour a week job...

Reply 9

silverbolt

In irish healthcare an OT once said to me - "the more the money, the less the care"

Some doctors ime care more for the title, prestige, car, house etc than the work itself. But they still deserve proper working conditions and a proper wage, the same as every other working person

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 10

OP

Original post by DrID

Are you some kind of moron? Who is going to accept a 30% pay cut AND work longer for it?!

Please can you provide me with a link for this 30% deduction when Hunt has formally guaranteed that 100% of those working the legal limit will receive the exact same salary? Costs aren't being cut, this is just a step to move towards a 7-day consistency.

And the hours are less not more. The average is now going to be 48 hours. Why do you think it is more hours?

Reply 11

Mutmit287

22

Original post by Betelgeuse-

I don't know much about what they are payed and the demands but i do know Hunt better not genuinely try and shaft them because they will just move abroad to a country where they will suitably accomodate them

as a med student moving abroad (like to the US) is looking even more appealing now this legislation has come in...

if they are not careful the UK are going to end up with a shortage of good highly skilled doctors!

Reply 12

Betelgeuse-

Original post by Natalierm2707

as a med student moving abroad (like to the US) is looking even more appealing now this legislation has come in...

if they are not careful the UK are going to end up with a shortage of good highly skilled doctors!

Dont blame you - Good on the strikers.

Reply 13

Mutmit287

22

Original post by silverbolt

In irish healthcare an OT once said to me - "the more the money, the less the care"

Some doctors ime care more for the title, prestige, car, house etc than the work itself. But they still deserve proper working conditions and a proper wage, the same as every other working person

out of the 300 people in my year (first year) at medical school, I can tell you there are a few people like that. but they are genuinly the vast majority!

why would you spend 5 years of your life, and a lot of money and time on a very stressful degree to then enter a stressful job just to get a nice car, and house... which to be honest you wont be spending much time in. and also medicine isnt very well paid till you reach mid 30's early 40's compared to many other jobs!

its lifelong training and I really hop you are the last person on this thread to have this opinion of us, as its not true.

I didnt come into medicine for the title, the prestige, the car or the house, I came into medicine because its truly something I wanted to do!

Reply 14

OP

Original post by Little Toy Gun

People in their 30s and 40s usually have inevitable extra responsibilities in their lives. They will have formed a family and they may need to spend plenty of money for their children's education; their parents will be pretty old and plenty of money will need to be spent to take care of them. They will also be of that age to be more likely to trying to safe up for a house/flat. This is without mentioning that many more professional and academic ones will need to save money for postgraduate studies by then. Doctors are humans, not machines.

And they are more than comfortably compensated at age 40 relative to the UK average. Of course they are humans which is why I was surprised they are not focusing their attention on free time rather than money.

Original post by Little Toy Gun

No. Or you are suggesting that the best way to get a perfect medical system is to not pay anyone at all.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. All doctors should be paid enough to be comfortable using the UK average as a reference point. A better doctor will be motivated by and passionate for the job and patients while receiving a comfortable salary, which is what the new proposal allows for.

Reply 15

Bill_Gates

21

In simple terms - Yes. Hence why service/compassion is falling within the NHS.

Reply 16

Awesome Genius

2

Original post by macromicro

And they are more than comfortably compensated at age 40 relative to the UK average. Of course they are humans which is why I was surprised they are not focusing their attention on free time rather than money.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. All doctors should be paid enough to be comfortable using the UK average as a reference point. A better doctor will be motivated by and passionate for the job and patients while receiving a comfortable salary, which is what the new proposal allows for.

lol the average person in the Uk works in a fish and chip shop.

Sorry but the average person isn't smart enough to be a doctor.

If you want a country where your doctor earns the average wage, you're not going to live for very long.

Reply 17

OP

Original post by Awesome Genius

All this is trickery mate. Basically they want people to take a substantial pay cut for work they're already doing.

Doctors do care about people but they're human beings who need to enjoy their lives too - they're smart and capable people.

Let me summarise by saying...

Doctors care more about people that your banker or lawyer does. And the saints and charity workers of this world are not smart enough to be doctors.

I thought they get a pay cut for the unsocial hours but an increase in base salary as well as a formal guarantee of same salary? Please can you explain where the loss in money will be.

Also, do you think it's right for someone on, say, £50k (base + unsocial) to be complaining about money when the UK average is half of that? That isn't a loaded question, I'm interested what your opinion is.

Reply 18

KimKallstrom

14

It you've got the academic and all round profile to become a doctor, you could become an investment banker and make more. With only 3 years of uni instead of 6 as well.....

So no.

Reply 19

Betelgeuse-