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Three people shot dead outside abortion clinic in the USA

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Original post by Bornblue
Yes I am comfortable. Her body, her choice.
By your logic it's wrong to use a condom?


So personal, emotional choice goes above and beyond reason?

Why is that?

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Original post by Scrappy-coco
So personal, emotional choice goes above and beyond reason?

Why is that?

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I don't actually understand what you are asking.
Reply 82
Original post by Scrappy-coco
So personal, emotional choice goes above and beyond reason?

Why is that?

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I rather a woman who is carrying the baby choose than religious nut jobs who believe they have an invisible friend and thinks murder is OK should decide.
Original post by Bornblue
I don't actually understand what you are asking.


1. If, as a third party, you see no medical or ethical reason for a child to be aborted with both families and the man happy to have a child, you think a woman's choice to abort because she would prefer to have the same social life should be accepted still?

2. Why does my logic mean condoms should not be used.

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America clearly has the biggest psychopath:normal person ratio in the western world.
Original post by Scrappy-coco
1. If, as a third party, you see no medical or ethical reason for a child to be aborted with both families and the man happy to have a child, you think a woman's choice to abort because she would prefer to have the same social life should be accepted still?

2. Why does my logic mean condoms should not be used.

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1.) Yes. It's a woman's body. It's her personal autonomy to choose what grows or doesn't grow inside it.

2.) You're argument against abortion is that it prevents a potential life. So do condoms.
Reply 86
Original post by Jimmy Carr
America clearly has the biggest psychopath:normal person ratio in the western world.


I don't think there is a higher % of psychos in the US than elsewhere, its just that most other countries try to stop psychos getting guns while in the US, no one tries to stop them.
I like how this isn't a terrorist act according to the media :lol:

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Reply 88
Original post by Bornblue
1.) Yes. It's a woman's body. It's her personal autonomy to choose what grows or doesn't grow inside it.

2.) You're argument against abortion is that it prevents a potential life. So do condoms.


Original post by Scrappy-coco
1. If, as a third party, you see no medical or ethical reason for a child to be aborted with both families and the man happy to have a child, you think a woman's choice to abort because she would prefer to have the same social life should be accepted still?

2. Why does my logic mean condoms should not be used.

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Do you think it would be a good idea to make religious nut jobs normal with a medical procedure?
Reply 89
Original post by Angry cucumber
I like how this isn't a terrorist act according to the media :lol:

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I think calling it a terrorist attack over blows it. This was one man rambling about baby parts being sold. Compare that to anders brevik, the IRA and al qaeda, all of whom had an entrenched and detailed ideology and political aims behind their attacks.

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Original post by Bornblue
1.) Yes. It's a woman's body. It's her personal autonomy to choose what grows or doesn't grow inside it.

2.) You're argument against abortion is that it prevents a potential life. So do condoms.


- but can you justify why a woman's autonomy that (in this hypothetical instance) has no medical or ethical reason is right?

- My argument is questioning your stance that because a baby grows in a woman's body, she has the overriding decision on killing it, regardless of whether it's morally right or not. It has nothing to do with and absolute rejection of abortion.

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Original post by Scrappy-coco
- but can you justify why a woman's autonomy that (in this hypothetical instance) has no medical or ethical reason is right?

- My argument is questioning your stance that because a baby grows in a woman's body, she has the overriding decision on killing it, regardless of whether it's morally right or not. It has nothing to do with and absolute rejection of abortion.

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Ethical reasons are not a fixed concept. They are subjective by nature. You may think something unethical and others may reasonably think the opposite.
They are a bad justification for something alone.

As for medical evidence? What on earth do you mean by medical evidence for abortion being right?
It's her body, it's growing inside of her. It's her choice. It's not a 'baby' anyway until about 26 weeks. After then fair enough. But before then it's absolutely her choice.
Original post by Bornblue
Ethical reasons are not a fixed concept. They are subjective by nature. You may think something unethical and others may reasonably think the opposite.
They are a bad justification for something alone.

As for medical evidence? What on earth do you mean by medical evidence for abortion being right?
It's her body, it's growing inside of her. It's her choice. It's not a 'baby' anyway until about 26 weeks. After then fair enough. But before then it's absolutely her choice.


But surely you think there is some substance to ethics. You would think those who think it right that an abortion clinic was shot are dead wrong don't you? It's not so entirely subjective as to be pointless, otherwise you would have no argument to countries who have abortion as illegal. I think ethical concepts can be concrete enough to be a factor.

There mother could have situations I've cancer etc. Such medical situations naturally bring forth the option of abortion.

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Original post by Scrappy-coco
But surely you think there is some substance to ethics. You would think those who think it right that an abortion clinic was shot are dead wrong don't you? It's not so entirely subjective as to be pointless, otherwise you would have no argument to countries who have abortion as illegal. I think ethical concepts can be concrete enough to be a factor.

There mother could have situations I've cancer etc. Such medical situations naturally bring forth the option of abortion.

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I believe in personal autonomy. That it is a person's right to choose what happens/ doesn't happen to their body. It is therefore a woman's right to choose. After 26 weeks, the foetus is an actual person, so fair enough, they cannot abort after that. But before then it's not a person.
Ethical reasons are not enough to be a factor by themselves. They need to be backed up. Otherwise you have a situation where you state 'x is wrong because it's wrong'.
Original post by Bornblue
I believe in personal autonomy. That it is a person's right to choose what happens/ doesn't happen to their body. It is therefore a woman's right to choose. After 26 weeks, the foetus is an actual person, so fair enough, they cannot abort after that. But before then it's not a person.
Ethical reasons are not enough to be a factor by themselves. They need to be backed up. Otherwise you have a situation where you state 'x is wrong because it's wrong'.


If someone cannot support why they judge something morally then it has little weight. Before the 26 weeks, the woman should have good reason for abortion, I think that if she can't justify her actions past repeating 'my problem my decision' then that's a sign she hasn't a good reason.

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Original post by Scrappy-coco
If someone cannot support why they judge something morally then it has little weight. Before the 26 weeks, the woman should have good reason for abortion, I think that if she can't justify her actions past repeating 'my problem my decision' then that's a sign she hasn't a good reason.

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Yes she has, the reason being that it's her body.

This is going round in circles and wasn't even the point of the thread.
Original post by DiddyDec
IRA...


ETA, red army.
Reply 97
Original post by MatureStudent36
ETA, red army.


I don't think the Soviet Army was involved in terrorism.
Original post by Maker
I don't think the Soviet Army was involved in terrorism.


Apologies.

Red Army Faction.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction
Reply 99
Original post by Bornblue
And who's body is it growing inside? Hers. It's in her body, it's her choice.

Tell me, do you agree with the death penalty?


It doesn't matter who it's growing inside. A woman does not have the moral right to execute her children (who have a different body to her's) because they are inconvenient to her.

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