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David Cameron says those against bombing syria are 'terrorist sympathizer's

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The only way to stop terrorism is to create a peaceful Syria.


Anyone whose ever suffered bombing raids such as in the Blitz says that you just harden yourself to it, buildings are destroyed, people die but you basically you just carry on rather that it breaking your will. Equally for every one person who is killed who is innocent, more terrorists will be created.



I will never support Corbyn, but there has to be a better plan than a few brimstone missiles.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Foo.mp3

Not really. He's trying to get a motion passed that he genuinely believes will help enhance security/combat our enemies, and those of our close allies (who have requested our assistance following a harrowing attack). I’ve watched him speak on this matter a few times and nothing I have seen communicates "desperation"

Ditto how he, and the Conservatives, feel about Corbyn and Labour to suggest that they feel threatened is absolutely preposterous, both are a total joke and the Tories had a superior attitude to start with, even before Milli-Balls entered the fray, never mind poor old confused Corbyn!


Yeah well our "allies" and our "enemies" need to be further and more clearly defined before any sort of intervention.

His attack at Corbyn and his supporters sounds very desperate.

When did I say they felt threatened? I said he sounded desperate and pathetic.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by pol pot noodles
Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser. He applauds the violent campaigns carried out by the IRA and Hamas. He claims peace in Northern Ireland was only achieved by the violence of the IRA and thus it was necessary. Labour are also okay with bombing ISIS in Iraq. But suddenly we want to attack them in Syria and all of a sudden Labour are staunch pacifists? Nonsense. Makes no sense.


If you cant see the difference between Iraq and Syria then you need to step away from any serious debate regarding Middle East policy.

Let me simplify it for you:

Iraq > airstrikes + legitimate ground forces (the Kurds and Iraqi army) = territory being regained after ISIS strongholds are bombed and weakened

Syria > airstrikes + no coherent ground force = wasted bombs after ISIS easily retake areas due to no credible opposition

The only forces capable of making serious use of airstrikes are those in support of Assad (sorry, i dont believe in Dave's ficticious 70 000 "moderate" rebels). However, the West still seem unwilling to recognise the possibility of Assad staying in power. This puts them in direct conflict with the aims of Russia who are also currently conducting airstrikes. The incoherence of the whole situation is amplified by Turkey's involvment. They have shown an unwilligness to secure their borders to stop the flow of ISIS recruits, have repeatedly attacked Kurdish forces who are actually fighting ISIS, are suspected of buying oil from ISIS or facilitating its transport and last but not least have already shot down a Russian jet.

If this whole situation doesn't scream chaos to you then I dont know what will. I haven't even scraped the surface of the gigantic cluster**** that is Syria.

To the earlier part of your post. The UK under Cameron actually helped train rebels who, yes you guessed it, are now fighting for ISIS. And lets not forget our bezzie mate in the region, Saudi Arabia, whose terrorist sympathies at the very least could be described as "problematic" (as well as their role in the Yemen conflict).

So if you think this situation can be solved by the UK dropping a few bombs in Syria then you are woefully misguided.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 23
Original post by pol pot noodles
No. It's the intentions and results behind 'bombing' that decides whether or not someone is a terrorist.


Ridiculous.
It doesn't make him any less of a terrorist.
Disgusting comments from a disgusting man.
Military intevrentionism is not a left-right issue. Nor is it about killing people versus not killing people or terrorist sympathizing or not terrorist sympathizing.

Numerous tories are against airstrikes and numerous Labour MPs are for them.
To therefore label anyone against as a 'terrorist sympathizer' is a disgusting trivialisation of this issue.

Everyone wants Isis gone but many do not believe that Cameron has presented a strong enough or detailed enough plan to warrant going in.


And it's a bit rich, the man who props up Saudi Arabian and Chinese regimes to hark on about supporting terrorism.
Bombing Syria in my logic will dramatically increase the ISIS terrorist treat in the UK. So David Cameron is a threat to our National Security not Jeremy Corbyn. And as for people saying he supports Hamas and the IRA this is not correct its just a bunch of right wingers mis quoting him.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by HAnwar
Ridiculous.
It doesn't make him any less of a terrorist.


Clearly you don't understand the definition of terrorist.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by looseseal
If you cant see the difference between Iraq and Syria then you need to step away from any serious debate regarding Middle East policy.

Let me simplify it for you:

Iraq > airstrikes + legitimate ground forces (the Kurds and Iraqi army) = territory being regained after ISIS strongholds are bombed and weakened

Syria > airstrikes + no coherent ground force = wasted bombs after ISIS easily retake areas due to no credible opposition

The only forces capable of making serious use of airstrikes are those in support of Assad (sorry, i dont believe in Dave's ficticious 70 000 "moderate" rebels). However, the West still seem unwilling to recognise the possibility of Assad staying in power. This puts them in direct conflict with the aims of Russia who are also currently conducting airstrikes. The incoherence of the whole situation is amplified by Turkey's involvment. They have shown an unwilligness to secure their borders to stop the flow of ISIS recruits, have repeatedly attacked Kurdish forces who are actually fighting ISIS, are suspected of buying oil from ISIS or facilitating its transport and last but not least have already shot down a Russian jet.

If this whole situation doesn't scream chaos to you then I dont know what will. I haven't even scraped the surface of the gigantic cluster**** that is Syria.

To the earlier part of your post. The UK under Cameron actually helped train rebels who, yes you guessed it, are now fighting for ISIS. And lets not forget our bezzie mate in the region, Saudi Arabia, whose terrorist sympathies at the very least could be described as "problematic" (as well as their role in the Yemen conflict).

So if you think this situation can be solved by the UK dropping a few bombs in Syria then you are woefully misguided.


Excellent post but you're wasting your time.
This fella is your typical Daily Mail reader. You can present a briliiant case and he'll ignore it all and go 'yeah Muslims are bad, Labour love Muslims, immigrants ruin everything' etc.
Following that logic, those who support bombing Syria are terrorists.
Original post by Zamestaneh
What's the difference between ISIS car bombing a baracks in the UK and the UK bombing an ISIS stronghold? You and I both know only one will be called a terrorist attack, even if the ISIS attack had no collateral damage i.e. civilian deaths :indiff:

I don't support ISIS btw, I am just questioning the lax use of the buzzword 'terrorism'


Daesh are the bad guys duh
Reply 30
I'm hardly the guy's fan but he said no such thing. He was reported to have said, "Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers." He did not call Jeremy Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser, nor that everyone who disagrees with the airstrikes was one.

I'm all for attacking Cameron, but let's at least stick to the things he's actually guilty of.
Original post by miser
I'm hardly the guy's fan but he said no such thing. He was reported to have said, "Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers." He did not call Jeremy Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser, nor that everyone who disagrees with the airstrikes was one.

I'm all for attacking Cameron, but let's at least stick to the things he's actually guilty of.


Well he said in his speech not so long ago, that Jeremy Corbyn was a “security threatening,terrorist-sympathising, Britain-hating” person so I don't think his opinion has changed much since then.
Reply 32
Original post by TrewKazim
Well he said in his speech not so long ago, that Jeremy Corbyn was a “security threatening,terrorist-sympathising, Britain-hating” person so I don't think his opinion has changed much since then.

Well, Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser if you count the IRA as terrorists.
Original post by miser
Well, Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser if you count the IRA as terrorists.


The allegations against him was reported by The Telegraph, a news paper that supports the Tory Party and is right wing, so I seriously doubt that its true.
Bombing the **** out of Syria won't do anything, it'll just kill even more innocent lives and maybe a few ISIS fighters. The ones who survive will end up hating the West for killing their family and friends and showing no humanity. Probably leading to another anti-West group.
Original post by Foo.mp3
1) Over 40,000 people died during the blitz. If ISIS were to sustain a fraction of that number of casualties they will have been completely annihilated

2) Britain had many advantages that ISIS do not e.g. territorial/organisational/logistical/structural, not to mention facing an adversary dropping relatively primitive/indiscriminate ordinance with no hope of encouraging any interested parties/allies of invading the territory/overthrowing the leadership of those they were bombing

3) Germany's enemy, the British Government, had the near-total support of the people, and the people had no choice but to resist. Whilst many sunni's are bonded to ISIS, those who are not fervant supporters or totally (somewhat rightly) paranoid about what might happen if/when non-sunni's take over the show, there are also many who are e.g. moderates/just too afraid and/or lack the means to repel ISIS from their lands




I mean psychologically, bombing raids don't really break the will of the people.


Original post by Foo.mp3

That argument held sway before Paris #2. As it stands, the people of Europe no longer care. As @queen-bee recently, rightly put it: "enough is enough". No longer shall we allow fear of reprisals to breed inertia. Chamberlain's moment has passed, the time for a new Churchill is upon us


It's not about reprisals as such, even before the issue of bombing Syria came up, Islamic State were planning to attack Britain and the only thing in the short term which can stop them is a well funded internal intelligence service. I don't fall into this Corbyn camp of thinking if we are nice to them, they will leave us alone


Original post by Foo.mp3

1) There is a better plan afoot: “It is part of a broader strategy. It’s about the politics, the diplomacy, and the humanitarian aid” David Cameron

2) “Airstrikes alone cannot defeat ISIL, but they can degrade ISIL, they can prevent ISIL expanding further in Syria. They can relieve the pressure on opposition forces that are being attacked by ISIL” UK Government. If you don’t believe that, listen to the Kurds, and this man who went to Syria to fight alongside the Kurds (12:50)



These are all buzzwords rather than an actual plan.


There is no clear person whom the Sunnis population would accept as ruler of Syria after the defeat of Islamic State, because currently the most likely candidate is Assad and many Sunnis (including the so called FSA) would prefer Islamic State to Assad.

I like the Kurds, but the Turks seem to have turned killing Kurds into a national pastime and these Turks are supposedly our allies, so much for a clear plan :erm:
Original post by looseseal
If you cant see the difference between Iraq and Syria then you need to step away from any serious debate regarding Middle East policy.

Let me simplify it for you:

Iraq > airstrikes + legitimate ground forces (the Kurds and Iraqi army) = territory being regained after ISIS strongholds are bombed and weakened

Syria > airstrikes + no coherent ground force = wasted bombs after ISIS easily retake areas due to no credible opposition

The only forces capable of making serious use of airstrikes are those in support of Assad (sorry, i dont believe in Dave's ficticious 70 000 "moderate" rebels). However, the West still seem unwilling to recognise the possibility of Assad staying in power. This puts them in direct conflict with the aims of Russia who are also currently conducting airstrikes. The incoherence of the whole situation is amplified by Turkey's involvment. They have shown an unwilligness to secure their borders to stop the flow of ISIS recruits, have repeatedly attacked Kurdish forces who are actually fighting ISIS, are suspected of buying oil from ISIS or facilitating its transport and last but not least have already shot down a Russian jet.

If this whole situation doesn't scream chaos to you then I dont know what will. I haven't even scraped the surface of the gigantic cluster**** that is Syria.

To the earlier part of your post. The UK under Cameron actually helped train rebels who, yes you guessed it, are now fighting for ISIS. And lets not forget our bezzie mate in the region, Saudi Arabia, whose terrorist sympathies at the very least could be described as "problematic" (as well as their role in the Yemen conflict).

So if you think this situation can be solved by the UK dropping a few bombs in Syria then you are woefully misguided.


Any bomb that kills an ISIS soldier or destroys one of their vehicles is not a wasted bomb. Wars are won by degrading the enemy, not simply capturing their territory. Bombing them in Syria also helps the campaign in Iraq. ISIS do not recognise the border, and they are the same enemy.
I wholeheartedly agree with your points regarding 'moderate' Syrian Rebels, Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Those points do not however have any relevance to whether or not we should escalate the war against ISIS by bombing their positions in Syria.
Original post by Bill_Gates
Says the guy selling arms to Saudi Arabia?


This is an interesting point, it indicates the huge cynicism there is behind these Cameron soundbites, even if you accept the argument.

The truth is, escalating to bombing won't change anything much on the ground there (other than killing a lot more civilians), but if we are just doing it to show solidarity with the French, then there's something to that. Beyond that, nothing short of a full-scale invasion of Syria will resolve the situation on the ground and short of that, it ain't gonna change. The US are committing a small ground force to it, operating across the border from Iraq and we are edging closer to a situation where Russian and US forces might engage each other, particularly if Russia continues to kill allies of ours on the ground.

Turkey meanwhile continues to support ISIS in numerous ways.
Original post by HAnwar
Ridiculous.
It doesn't make him any less of a terrorist.


It does by definition. You seem to be implying any soldier or statesman in a war is a terrorist. RAF bombing missions are precision strikes targeted at legitimate military personnel. ISIS wholesale butcher civilians for the sole purpose of propaganda. That is why they are terrorists.
Reply 39
Original post by TrewKazim
The allegations against him was reported by The Telegraph, a news paper that supports the Tory Party and is right wing, so I seriously doubt that its true.

I try not to make it a habit to instantly dismiss what people say merely because they have a different values to me.

Unless the Telegraph has a history of false investigation then I don't think the fact they're Conservative justifies dismissing what they say out of hand.
(edited 8 years ago)

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