The Student Room Group

PhD?

1. How long does a PhD in Physics eventually take from the moment you go to university?

2. What is the best route to achieve a PhD in Physics?

3. What do you have to do in order to attain a PhD? Project? Dissertation?
1. That depends if you are required to MSc first.
2. The shortest one.
3. Shed blood, sweat, tears, in writing 50,000 words. Still, shorter than the 80,000 for required for Humanities.
Generally 3 year undergrad, masters and 3 year PhD, so 7 years from start to finish. Can vary. 6 the minimum, about 9 maximum I would think.

That one ^

One big ol' research project.
Reply 3
Original post by The Wavefunction
Generally 3 year undergrad, masters and 3 year PhD, so 7 years from start to finish. Can vary. 6 the minimum, about 9 maximum I would think.

That one ^

One big ol' research project.


Are the Masters and PhD both done in 3 years? And I'm guessing the 6-9 years difference depends on whether I'm full time or part time student, and how quickly and efficiently I can get it done?

Are there requirements in order to do a PhD? In terms of what degree I need to have?
Reply 4
Original post by DrSocSciences
1. That depends if you are required to MSc first.
2. The shortest one.
3. Shed blood, sweat, tears, in writing 50,000 words. Still, shorter than the 80,000 for required for Humanities.


I've heard there's different types of degrees, such as MSc and MPhys, is one better for a PhD? What's the difference between the 2?
Original post by Jagraj16
Are the Masters and PhD both done in 3 years? And I'm guessing the 6-9 years difference depends on whether I'm full time or part time student, and how quickly and efficiently I can get it done?

Are there requirements in order to do a PhD? In terms of what degree I need to have?


I'd say it's a minimum of 2:1
Original post by Jagraj16
1. How long does a PhD in Physics eventually take from the moment you go to university?

2. What is the best route to achieve a PhD in Physics?

3. What do you have to do in order to attain a PhD? Project? Dissertation?


1&2:
There are four main routes
Route a: BSc (3 years) --> MSc (1 year) --> PhD (3 years)
Route b: MPhys (4 years) --> PhD (3 years)
Route c: BSc (3 years) --> MSc (1 year) --> EngD (4 years)
Route d: MPhys (4 years) --> EngD (4 years)
And then there's other routes that involve coming from other related degrees, such as engineering undergraduate degrees. But really the best ways are one of the four above.

The best route? Probably an MPhys route as it involves industry experience, which really helps you stand out from people who go the MSc path.

PhD or EngD? They are the same final qualification but the EngD is a year longer and industrial based. The EngD offers the wider range of skills however and pays more (typically about £18-20k per year while a PhD is about £13-14k). Think hard about each one. I went for the EngD because I've seen too many people get completely destroyed by PhDs. In the EngD you work company hours instead of working all the time to get your project done. It just seemed like the easier route to me. So far I don't have any regrets, but I only started in September.

Oh and don't let the Engineering name in EngD put you off. It's engineering in the broad sense. You know, meaning physics, maths, computing, etc.

3.
PhDs and EngDs consist of long projects and lots of research, followed by a thesis of typically about 200-400 pages and a viva voce examination (usually just called a viva).
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 7
Original post by Keyhofi
1&2:
There are four main routes
Route a: BSc (3 years) --> MSc (1 year) --> PhD (3 years)
Route b: MPhys (4 years) --> PhD (3 years)
Route c: BSc (3 years) --> MSc (1 year) --> EngD (4 years)
Route d: MPhys (4 years) --> EngD (4 years)
And then there's other routes that involve coming from other related degrees, such as engineering undergraduate degrees. But really the best ways are one of the four above.

The best route? Probably an MPhys route as it involves industry experience, which really helps you stand out from people who go the MSc path.

PhD or EngD? They are the same final qualification but the EngD is a year longer and industrial based. The EngD offers the wider range of skills however and pays more (typically about £18-20k per year while a PhD is about £13-14k). Think hard about each one. I went for the EngD because I've seen too many people get completely destroyed by PhDs. In the EngD you work company hours instead of working all the time to get your project done. It just seemed like the easier route to me. So far I don't have any regrets, but I only started in September.

Oh and don't let the Engineering name in EngD put you off. It's engineering in the broad sense. You know, meaning physics, maths, computing, etc.

3.
PhDs and EngDs consist of long projects and lots of research, followed by a thesis of typically about 200-400 pages and a viva voce examination (usually just called a viva).


13-14k and 18-20k? Blimey, I thought physicists earned a lot more than that, wow. I think I'd go for the MPhys and then PhD (route 2) partly because I wish to do research in either particle physics or astrophysics. What can the thesis be about? Does it have to be related to my preferred specialism?
Original post by Jagraj16
13-14k and 18-20k? Blimey, I thought physicists earned a lot more than that, wow. I think I'd go for the MPhys and then PhD (route 2) partly because I wish to do research in either particle physics or astrophysics. What can the thesis be about? Does it have to be related to my preferred specialism?


Physicists generally don't earn that much.
Original post by Jagraj16
I've heard there's different types of degrees, such as MSc and MPhys, is one better for a PhD? What's the difference between the 2?


The MSc is the better/higher degree.

An MPhys is an "undergraduate masters". It's not a `true' masters, otherwise they could award an MSc, which they can't - the reason for this is the final year of an MPhys will require (like all 3 years prior) 120 credits. An MSc year requires 180 credits to be passed.

Having either will qualify you for a PhD (some programmes would even take just a BSc), but the MSc would prepare you the most.
Original post by FireGarden


Having either will qualify you for a PhD (some programmes would even take just a BSc), but the MSc would prepare you the most.


Clarification: would qualify you to make a doctoral application.
Original post by Jagraj16
13-14k and 18-20k? Blimey, I thought physicists earned a lot more than that, wow. I think I'd go for the MPhys and then PhD (route 2) partly because I wish to do research in either particle physics or astrophysics. What can the thesis be about? Does it have to be related to my preferred specialism?


Physicists earn a lot more than that. Starting pay can easily be in the high £20k's and specialists that are in high demand can get over £100k. In reality your wage is going to be between these two numbers and probably more towards the lower end. Physics is pretty much a middle class area. You'll be able to live comfortably.

PhDs pay very little for all areas - they aren't a true job. At least in science you do get lots of funded PhDs.

Your thesis will be about your PhD project. Research PhDs and pick one when the time comes. There are many to choose from.

Also, the £13k and £20k are tax free and you don't pay council tax or pay back your student loan while doing them, so in reality they are worth a lot more than that. They are also handy for promotions later on in your career.
(edited 8 years ago)
Thanks for the all the help everyone, appreciate it! :smile:
Original post by FireGarden
The MSc is the better/higher degree.

An MPhys is an "undergraduate masters". It's not a `true' masters, otherwise they could award an MSc, which they can't - the reason for this is the final year of an MPhys will require (like all 3 years prior) 120 credits. An MSc year requires 180 credits to be passed.

Having either will qualify you for a PhD (some programmes would even take just a BSc), but the MSc would prepare you the most.


I would agree with your facts, that is the MSc is indeed the higher qualification and is worth more credits, but I would disagree with your final conclusion. The MSc is largely classroom based, with your final project only lasting a few months and your disertation typically being quite small. An MPhys project usually lasts for about 11 months and its dissertaion is typically about a hundred pages. To someone looking for a PhD student they don't care as much about the number of hours you have spent in a classroom as the number of hours you have of real experience and your level of writing skill (required for the thesis).

Nonetheless, both the MSc and the MPhys are extremely valuable degrees. They do have differences and I guess we could probably argue about which one is more useful forever, but that would be pointless.
Original post by Keyhofi
I would agree with your facts, that is the MSc is indeed the higher qualification and is worth more credits, but I would disagree with your final conclusion. The MSc is largely classroom based, with your final project only lasting a few months and your disertation typically being quite small. An MPhys project usually lasts for about 11 months and its dissertaion is typically about a hundred pages. To someone looking for a PhD student they don't care as much about the number of hours you have spent in a classroom as the number of hours you have of real experience and your level of writing skill (required for the thesis).

Nonetheless, both the MSc and the MPhys are extremely valuable degrees. They do have differences and I guess we could probably argue about which one is more useful forever, but that would be pointless.


Sorry to derail slightly, but do you happen to know the difference between an MSc and MSci? I'm currently in my second year of my 4 year undergraduate course in which I work in industry for a year, and I believe I get an MSc. Is it as highly valued as the MSci?
Original post by The Wavefunction
Sorry to derail slightly, but do you happen to know the difference between an MSc and MSci? I'm currently in my second year of my 4 year undergraduate course in which I work in industry for a year, and I believe I get an MSc. Is it as highly valued as the MSci?


Hmm, no I don't. If I had to guess I would say that MSci is the umbrella term for MPhys/MChem/etc. As in an MPhys is a type of MSci and so is an MChem. This might be wrong, but that's just my guess. I've never actually come across the MSci degree before. I guess different institutions just call it different things.

Your degree sounds like an MPhys/MSci.
Original post by Keyhofi
I would agree with your facts, that is the MSc is indeed the higher qualification and is worth more credits, but I would disagree with your final conclusion. The MSc is largely classroom based, with your final project only lasting a few months and your disertation typically being quite small. An MPhys project usually lasts for about 11 months and its dissertaion is typically about a hundred pages. To someone looking for a PhD student they don't care as much about the number of hours you have spent in a classroom as the number of hours you have of real experience and your level of writing skill (required for the thesis).

Nonetheless, both the MSc and the MPhys are extremely valuable degrees. They do have differences and I guess we could probably argue about which one is more useful forever, but that would be pointless.


This might well be the case for physics, but certainly not for mathematics (which my MSc was in, and thus how my answer is informed - I believed the cases would be similar). The MMath students had a lot "longer" to do their projects, but this was during term times. My project occurred over the summer; so while "half the time", it was the only thing I did, and put far more hours into it. The requirements/guidelines of the MSc project were twice that of the MMath!

I might guess the physics projects turn out the way you claim if experiments are necessary - but then, I would still think theoretical projects would mirror the mathematics case...?

Finally, as a caveat, there are MSc by research courses. Some are more up-front with this and award an MRes, but not always.

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