The Student Room Group

Why are men not gong to Uni?

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Reply 40
Original post by skeptical_john
https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/thousands-men-missing-university-education

For the umpteenth year in a row the gap between men and women going to uni has widened. I've read a few articles on this but not seen anyone mention what I think the problem is: lack of male teachers.

Im doing a my second placement in a primary school and it's really not hard to notice how few male teachers/TAs there are. Out of 25 at my current primary there are 3 men (and that includes me who is not even employed there!)

Its not as extreme at secondary but it's still a problem. Boys are going to grow up thinking (much in the way historically has been true for women in science) education is not for them.

Why are so few men in primary education? I've not done much research on this but there are some connotations with men and young children which rarely seems to be out of the news these days. (I myself want to work in post 16 when degree completed).

I realise how advantaged men are in the world but without good education we are going to create the next ukip voters of the future.


Because a university degree doesn't lead to a well paid job anymore. Students think they are entitled to a job if they get a degree but in reality they're not.
Because most men don't feel that they have anything to prove.
Original post by zigglr
Because a university degree doesn't lead to a well paid job anymore. Students think they are entitled to a job if they get a degree but in reality they're not.



While that is correct, you have a much larger chance of getting a well paid job with a degree. Certainly over the long run. Though I think there is a point that men may not see risk/reward of 27k for a degree worth it in the long run IF they only have average A-level grades.

Original post by Gogregg
Because most men don't feel that they have anything to prove.


This just sounds like to me praising stupidity. And surely men have a much greater history of feeling like they have to prove themselves?
Reply 43
Original post by skeptical_john
While that is correct, you have a much larger chance of getting a well paid job with a degree. Certainly over the long run. Though I think there is a point that men may not see risk/reward of 27k for a degree worth it in the long run IF they only have average A-level grades.


An apprenticeship would give you a similar salary as most degrees but without the debt, apart from the very top degrees
Original post by skeptical_john

This just sounds like to me praising stupidity. And surely men have a much greater history of feeling like they have to prove themselves?


I feel like one of us has misunderstood the other, but what I mean is that, most men don't have to deal with discrimination like women do, they are at the top of the food chain, or so they think, so they don't need to do anything to succeed in life. This is why white men are doing the worst. We don't have to deal with racism or sexism, we don't need to prove ourselves as strong or whatever, we are told that we are from the minute we are born.

I'm not saying that it is a good way to live, and it certainly isn't how I live, it is idiotic, but it's just why I think less men are going to university.
Original post by Bupdeeboowah
Why is this a bad thing? If women have progressed so far, why should they settle for something which they perceive will weight themselves down?


Don't really think that not going to Uni automatically means that you're lesser or that University educated people are above those that aren't.
Original post by TornadoGR4
Don't really think that not going to Uni automatically means that you're lesser or that University educated people are above those that aren't.


University graduates are superior on average, that's a FACT.
Original post by Bill_Gates
University graduates are superior on average, that's a FACT.


Why?
Original post by Gogregg
I feel like one of us has misunderstood the other, but what I mean is that, most men don't have to deal with discrimination like women do, they are at the top of the food chain, or so they think, so they don't need to do anything to succeed in life. This is why white men are doing the worst. We don't have to deal with racism or sexism, we don't need to prove ourselves as strong or whatever, we are told that we are from the minute we are born.

I'm not saying that it is a good way to live, and it certainly isn't how I live, it is idiotic, but it's just why I think less men are going to university.


Ah with you now. I think you're saying it's the price of privilege? So I dont need to get awesome grades because I'm a white man the world was made for me.
I do see this myself around exam time. In the library desks are full of young girls and ethnics of both genders but white boys are few and far between.

Original post by Bill_Gates
University graduates are superior on average, that's a FACT.


Well yes you're both correct here. someone who has gone to uni is not automatically better equipped for life but on average you are better off. I'm a mature student myself having worked in banking for a few years before hand it was usually obvious to me those who had been to uni vs those who had not. The division I worked for was headed by someone who left schooling at 16 though!
Original post by TornadoGR4
Why?


Earnings and wealth are both better for graduates also health funnily enough. But this is on AVERAGE. But i take averages quite seriously.
Original post by Bill_Gates
Earnings and wealth are both better for graduates also health funnily enough. But this is on AVERAGE. But i take averages quite seriously.


Why does wealth make them superior?
Original post by TornadoGR4
Why does wealth make them superior?


Surprised you never said income tbh LOL
Original post by Bill_Gates
Surprised you never said income tbh LOL


Why does wealth make them superior?
Original post by Quantex
I went to a school that had two catchment areas. One was extremely middle class. Most got top grades and went to good universities. The other one, consisted of kids from working class former mining communities. Many of them, particularly the lads, took pride in their stupidity, had contempt for education and had no qualms about bullying those that put some effort in. Few went on to A levels. The rest either became unemployed or went into poorly paid jobs with little job security. Which isn't so much a reflection of them, its an area where there are limited job opportunities. You either get educated and escape or stay.

I don't know how much my school was a microcosm of the UK as a whole, but from what I've seen many white working class lads fail because they don't even try.


Were the teachers in the former mining area trying hard to motivate the boys? Were they overwhelmed in effect by local attitudes and culture? Or is it that their schools are also deprived of quality teaching staff and resources?

It does seem chronic that after decades of efforts to improve education, the life chances of the kids growing up in such areas should be so strongly determined by the affluence of their neighbourhood. This clearly is still the reality though. :sad:
The wage differential between graduate men and non-graduate men is much narrower than that between non-graduate women and graduate women.

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7998

There are many more "good" jobs for male non-graduates than female non-graduates.

Even where there are "good" jobs available to female non-graduates, there may biases in favour of graduates. The army recruits both men and women but the trades in which they go into, tend to differ between men and women even where the roles are open to both. Many of the roles in which women enter, value graduate skills whereas many of the roles men enter, don't.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Were the teachers in the former mining area trying hard to motivate the boys? Were they overwhelmed in effect by local attitudes and culture? Or is it that their schools are also deprived of quality teaching staff and resources?

It does seem chronic that after decades of efforts to improve education, the life chances of the kids growing up in such areas should be so strongly determined by the affluence of their neighbourhood. This clearly is still the reality though. :sad:


I suspect there is an element of victim culture here. If the local narrative is "there are no jobs because Thatcher destroyed the mines" it is very hard for teachers to say: yes there are well paid jobs for the likes of you in accountancy firms in Sheffield and law firms in Nottingham.

In these areas there is also a very narrow perception of what is a "proper job" for a man and to some extent it is defined by roles that no longer exist; mines, engineering works and the like. Very few of these lads would think of barbering, retail to a male customer base (menswear, gadgets, DIY/builders merchants, even sports goods), hospitality (yet most senior roles in hotels and restaurants are in male hands) as being careers for them
Education (secondary) works better with girls, as boys require more vocal learning and excessive, which diminishes through the years.
Original post by TornadoGR4
Why does wealth make them superior?


Much rather hang out with university grads than working class uneducated plebs.
Original post by Bill_Gates
They are getting outmanoeuvred by women. There are still men at universities just from overseas. White working class is falling behind.

Sad thing is women will not settle for men who don't have similar or better education.


Have you spoken to every single woman about this? Stop bloody generalising!
Original post by simbasdragon
Have you spoken to every single woman about this? Stop bloody generalising!


it's a well known trend. Very well known trend. Also relationships where women earn more than men don't last as long.

It's the world we live in. Women are hypergamy.

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