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Do we need a Royal Family

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Reply 40

They're good for tourism!
(Prepares for impact)
Reply 41
pharmgirl
We were talking about how to guard against a democratically elected leader turning dictator and how a sepration of head of government and head of state with limited constitutional power prevents this.


Ah I see; I really just saw the old monarchy debate and dived in with my two-cents.

But surely the monarchy, as it stands today, is far too widely accepted as ceremonial that it cannot act as a 'buffer'. Anyway; who want's a system that is, at it's core, a fallacy? It is very pessimistic.
Reply 42
No, we do not need a Royal Family. This however does not mean that it should be abolished.
Reply 43
shady lane
What? I'm talking about a president in a parliamentary system. Please see Germany, France, Israel, and others. I have an extremely hard time believing that the average presidency in those countries is more costly than the Queen.


Yep, I recall hearing that very thing being said of France and Germany.
naivesincerity
That's what mystifies me. People's peculiar need to be deferential to these unremarkable people.


Agree- they seem to be an altogether undistinguished bunch. The UK does not need them.
Reply 45
we only need tony blar for the job
Reply 46
the sand man
we only need tony blar for the job


Tony Blair performs a very different job to a head of state, and assuming we kept to the parliamentary system, we'd still need a separate head of state - even if it wasn't the Queen.
Reply 47
I would trust the Royal Family over a spin dripping New Labour government any day of the week.
Reply 48
dan_man
I would trust the Royal Family over a spin dripping New Labour government any day of the week.


And you don't think that the royal family were the initiators of 'spin'? :rolleyes:

The whole institution is run by 'spin meisters'.
Reply 49
Well I am in favour for some major reform in this country. The current state of affairs with the monarch as our head of state and we as her subjects and with an unelected house of lords. Not to mention the grown men still donning wigs in our justice system with everything directly under "the crown". It's embarassing really to see all these other modern countries and we're still stuck in tradition. When I saw the last state opening of the parliament, I cringed.

I would suggest a reformed house of lords with elected senators, a reformed justice system and a new written constitution that fully establishes the rules and principles that govern this country. As for the monarchy, I think the Royal family should be relieved of their 'birth right' duties but be still entitled as anyone else to stand for elections as Head of State/President.
Reply 50
Holly-AT says no.
Reply 51
monsumo
Well I am in favour for some major reform in this country. The current state of affairs with the monarch as our head of state and we as her subjects and with an unelected house of lords. Not to mention the grown men still donning wigs in our justice system with everything directly under "the crown". It's embarassing really to see all these other modern countries and we're still stuck in tradition. When I saw the last state opening of the parliament, I cringed.

I would suggest a reformed house of lords with elected senators, a reformed justice system and a new written constitution that fully establishes the rules and principles that govern this country. As for the monarchy, I think the Royal family should be relieved of their 'birth right' duties but be still entitled as anyone else to stand for elections as Head of State/President.

There are a multiplicity of countries operating those kinds of systems, choose one and live there if it matters so much to you. There's no need to make every system simply 'one of the crowd'.
Reply 52
The Royal Family represent one of the most potent symbols of power through privilege. There is no other way of seeing them - they are born into their status and we are expected to swallow this as entirely reasonable. In this respect they are diametrically opposed to the value of meritocracy - something which liberals are supposed to believe in.

We could have a Royal Family by vote, changing every two years, say - that would be fun!
Reply 53
Oswy
The Royal Family represent one of the most potent symbols of power through privilege.


You think the Queen is privileged?!

We could have a Royal Family by vote, changing every two years, say - that would be fun!


We have a Royal Family by parliamentary vote already, and conceivably they could change it as regularly as they fancied.
Reply 54
Oswy
The Royal Family represent one of the most potent symbols of power through privilege. There is no other way of seeing them - they are born into their status and we are expected to swallow this as entirely reasonable. In this respect they are diametrically opposed to the value of meritocracy - something which liberals are supposed to believe in.

We could have a Royal Family by vote, changing every two years, say - that would be fun!

That might assuage your envy but it's hardly pragmatic. It would cost more, loose the benefits of continuity and tradition, make the head of state partisan, incentivise politician-esk acting over appropriateness and give the incumbent a feeling of obligation that they had to 'do' something that could be seen by the electorate rather than take the most appropriate course of action, which, in this role, is often to do nothing.
Reply 55
City bound
That might assuage your envy but it's hardly pragmatic. It would cost more, loose the benefits of continuity and tradition, make the head of state partisan, incentivise politician-esk acting over appropriateness and give the incumbent a feeling of obligation that they had to 'do' something that could be seen by the electorate rather than take the most appropriate course of action, which, in this role, is often to do nothing.


But you don't deny the logic of my first sentence.
Reply 56
I think the issue of the royal family will really come into question when the Queen dies - chances are Australia, for one, will not be keen to have Charles as the head state.
Reply 57
Oswy
But you don't deny the logic of my first sentence.

You make the fatal assumption that the alternative, a function of democracy, would produce a candidate of greater merit. So yes, I do deny it.
Reply 58
You think the Queen is privileged?!


How many people do you know who live in a palace, have butlers waiting on them, drive around in huge motors and get to travel the world waving at children for a living.

Yes, I do think the Queen is privileged. No doubt you'll have a reply as to how the Queen's life is so hard and she does such lovely work for charity, and has a lovely smile. Pathetic.
Reply 59
City bound
You make the fatal assumption that the alternative, a function of democracy, would produce a candidate of greater merit. So yes, I do deny it.


So, according to you, event though the Royals are born into their high status, this isn't symbolic of being born into such high status. Some people will go to great lengths to defend their position, even denying the most reasonable of statements.

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