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Going to University has become absolutely pointless.

Aside from vocational qualifications (the majority of degrees aren't vocational), that is.

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Why would you want to lumber yourself with £27,000 of debt, simply so you can be in exactly the same position as everyone else?

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Why do graduate programmes need to hire graduates? In what way does a degree in philosophy, or gender studies, or politics, or physics, make you any more qualified than a school leaver to work as a manager in Asda?

•

Why wouldn't you take a professional qualification, like from the Chartered Institute of Marketing, or Prince2? They are industry recognised, infinitely cheaper, shorter and often fall within the confines of CPD (and thus can be paid for by an employer).

•

In the face of increased competition in the sector, and plummeting admissions for profit-making courses, we're importing hundreds of thousands of students every few years. Universities are going out of their way to offer scholarships and funding to international students, ahead of home students. What chance do you have? Little to none. Thanks progressivism.

•

Worse yet, Universities, whether you are aware of it or not, prolong your adolescence. You've got no idea what real life is like. You are the 16 year old's of yesteryear; you are treading the path of least resistance, seeing it as a rite of passage. You become ingrained in your thought processes (people do as they get older, particularly between the ages of 18-22), particularly in modern Universities which encourage conformity and collaboration, and promote 'safe spaces' to protect you from other people's feelings.

•

The sense of entitlement, among my generation, is through the roof. 1 in 6 graduates expect to be earning £100,000 per year by the age of 30. What has reared this massive sense of entitlement and narcissism? The higher education sector. It's delusional, to say the least.

Why not apply for a training scheme? You're 18, by the time you've left University you'll be 22, and still in the same position, from the perspective of marketable and life skills relevant to your future career, as you were when you arrived at university.

What, you've got transferable skills? You can read and write? Congratulations, most people in the workplace are infinitely further ahead, with genuine experience of real situations which require real communication skills, real organisational skills, real time management skills, and every other real soft skill in existence.

You are, in the hands of higher education providers, perpetual adolescents. Your adolescence is prolonged well beyond what it should be. How does that coalesce with the workplace? It doesn't. It breeds a conveyor belt of infantile dross; many of whom expect to revolutionise their workplace, who think they know best, from the first moment on the job.

They're infantile, naive, idealistic, unskilled, lacking in socialisation (from their extended stay in adolescence) and a drain on any corporation, institution or organisation, at least for the first few years, during which they need to be 'deconstructed.'
(edited 8 years ago)

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I agree that some courses are pointless which are more for the sake of just getting a degree rather than being necessary in a certain sector. Main thing with a lot of degrees is that they give you skills which are needed in later life and people probably choose some because its something that they are going to enjoy for the next few years of their life, some probably won't enjoy other programmes. Also you will end up with more than £27k debt because there's other costs as well which you will need to take a loan for.
Another person enlightened to the reality of the system. University is still worth it for high end professions(e.g Computer Science, Medicine, Engineering, Nursing) but for the vast majority, they're just kidding themselves and sentencing themselves to decades of indentured servitude. The system is utterly broken. The price of admission and the return on investment for most is exceptionally poor.
Nah
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Avatar for zed963
zed963
16
Most STEM degrees aren't pointless.
Original post by zed963
Most STEM degrees aren't pointless.


He did say aside from vocational qualifications which a lot of STEM are.
Original post by Vikingninja
Main thing with a lot of degrees is that they give you skills which are needed in later life and people probably choose some because its something that they are going to enjoy for the next few years of their life, some probably won't enjoy other programmes. Also you will end up with more than £27k debt because there's other costs as well which you will need to take a loan for.


'Soft skills.' As noted above, these would be far more refined with 6 months in actual employment, in real situations, than what could be developed in 3-4 years studying for a degree.

Agree about the debt. It's significantly more expensive than mere tuition.
Haha no.

I'd rather be educated and poor than uneducated and earning a moderately comfortable living. Having the resources of a university to help satisfy my hunger for knowledge and understand the world better trumps any cosy idea of having a nice life working as a trainee at some company that doesn't give a chit about you.

It's pathetic when people start to only see university as a means to an end for employment. What happened to the pursuit of betterment?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by marco14196
Another person enlightened to the reality of the system. University is still worth it for high end professions(e.g Computer Science, Medicine, Engineering, Nursing) but for the vast majority, they're just kidding themselves and sentencing themselves to decades of indentured servitude. The system is utterly broken. The price of admission and the return on investment for most is exceptionally poor.


Agreed. I think, nowadays, much of it has to do with perceived social status and cultural elitism. To go to university is a very middle-class thing to do; to be without a degree is, somehow, a reflection on your very being.

We've got Tony to thank for that.
Also one other thing. 1/6 grads think they'll be making £100K by age thirty. I wonder if they realise that is probably 80% unlikely to happen. They will more likely make less than half of that a year. Just because you get a degree doesn't suddenly entitle you to a high paid job. You have to realise that the economy doesn't support hundreds of thousands of 100K jobs for needy, demanding grads. I think a lot of students need a severe reality check and need to get off that cool aid.
Original post by TheCitizenAct
Aside from vocational qualifications (the majority of degrees aren't vocational), that is.

•

Why would you want to lumber yourself with £27,000 of debt, simply so you can be in exactly the same position as everyone else?

•

Why do graduate programmes need to hire graduates? In what way does a degree in philosophy, or gender studies, or politics, or physics, make you any more qualified than a school leaver to work as a manager in Asda?

•

Why wouldn't you take a professional qualification, like from the Chartered Institute of Marketing, or Prince2? They are industry recognised, infinitely cheaper, shorter and often fall within the confines of CPD (and thus can be paid for by an employer).

•

In the face of increased competition in the sector, and plummeting admissions for profit-making courses, we're importing hundreds of thousands of students every few years. Universities are going out of their way to offer scholarships and funding to international students, ahead of home students. What chance do you have? Little to none. Thanks progressivism.

•

Worse yet, Universities, whether you are aware of it or not, prolong your adolescence. You've got no idea what real life is like. You are the 16 year old's of yesteryear; you are treading the path of least resistance, seeing it as a rite of passage. You become ingrained in your thought processes (people do as they get older, particularly between the ages of 18-22), particularly in modern Universities which encourage conformity and collaboration, and promote 'safe spaces' to protect you from other people's feelings.

•

The sense of entitlement, among my generation, is through the roof. 1 in 6 graduates expect to be earning £100,000 per year by the age of 30. What has reared this massive sense of entitlement and narcissism? The higher education sector. It's delusional, to say the least.

Why not apply for a training scheme? You're 18, by the time you've left University you'll be 22, and still in the same position, from the perspective of marketable and life skills relevant to your future career, as you were when you arrived at university.

What, you've got transferable skills? You can read and write? Congratulations, most people in the workplace are infinitely further ahead, with genuine experience of real situations which require real communication skills, real organisational skills, real time management skills, and every other real soft skill in existence.

You are, in the hands of higher education providers, perpetual adolescents. Your adolescence is prolonged well beyond what it should be. How does that coalesce with the workplace? It doesn't. It breeds a conveyor belt of infantile dross; many of whom expect to revolutionise their workplace, who think they know best, from the first moment on the job.

They're infantile, naive, idealistic, unskilled, lacking in socialisation (from their extended stay in adolescence) and a drain on any corporation, institution or organisation, at least for the first few years, during which they need to be 'deconstructed.'


I would agree with you, except for the fact there are STEMM subjects that require degrees. Other than that, yeah, do we really need a university course for Photography and the Arts? Nursing should be a vocational course too, imo
I never understood the need for a photography course. Photography is something you can only perfect through practice and analysing the works of other peoples. Its most definitely something you don't need to get a degree in.
Original post by High Stakes
Haha no.

I'd rather be educated and poor than uneducated and earning a moderately comfortable living. Having the resources of a university to help satisfy my hunger for knowledge and understand the world better. trumps any idea of having a nice life working as a trainee at some company that doesn't give a chit about you.

It's pathetic when people start to only see university as a means to an end for employment. What happened to the pursuit of betterment?


Is that you, Jeremy? :wink:

I would think the vast majority of people who attend university do so for the purposes of cultural elitism (see above), or for the purposes of future employment.
Will you be better when you come out the other end? In what way does a piece of paper make you 'better'? Personally, I believe (in many instances) you could have bought the education you've just had spoon fed for the last 3-4 years for £15 down the local library. That's how many 'bettered' themselves in the old days, you know?

Some will do it for betterment, and fair enough. Quite how that's defined in a world of tens of thousands of potential degrees, ever lowering educational standards and crappy colleges morphing into higher education institutions, I'm not sure.
Original post by TheCitizenAct
'Soft skills.' As noted above, these would be far more refined with 6 months in actual employment, in real situations, than what could be developed in 3-4 years studying for a degree.

Agree about the debt. It's significantly more expensive than mere tuition.


Yeah I see this but a lot probably want to go into a course that they will enjoy since they are learning stuff that they enjoy and will gain the skills but yeah over a longer period. I find that the sciences aren't always the best since in some science and maths subjects that some people don't go into a career that is related but they enjoy the course so atleast will be happy in doing so. Some universities with their subjects also give industrial placements for a year or during holidays, think Loughborough has this available in EVERY SINGLE course that it has which is pretty amazing.

About the debt whilst it is quite large it isn't a massive deal I find because you don't have a time to pay back, you pay back a certain amount each month which aren't massive amounts unless you are bad with money.

I understand a bit with some of these courses because not everyone knows what career they want to go into and so aren't exactly focused on a training programme. So do a degree that they will enjoy and get the skills from that and after a few years may know what they want to do. Also some training programmes are massively competitive and difficult like the KPMG programme so go into a degree that can get them into the industry if that fails.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by TheCitizenAct
Is that you, Jeremy? :wink:

I would think the vast majority of people who attend university do so for the purposes of cultural elitism (see above), or for the purposes of future employment.
Will you be better when you come out the other end? In what way does a piece of paper make you 'better'? Personally, I believe (in many instances) you could have bought the education you've just had spoon fed for the last 3-4 years for £15 down the local library. That's how many 'bettered' themselves in the old days, you know?

Some will do it for betterment, and fair enough. Quite how that's defined in a world of tens of thousands of potential degrees, ever lowering educational standards and crappy colleges morphing into higher education institutions, I'm not sure.


In mine and other peoples experiences it is only ex-poly's that tend to 'spoon feed'. Most prestigious universities expect you to prepare and sort out what you need to learn off your own back
I know it is a terribly old fashioned view, but Isn't a university education valuable in and of itself?
Seriously, what have I spent the last 16 years of my life doing :frown:
Original post by TheCitizenAct
Aside from vocational qualifications (the majority of degrees aren't vocational), that is.

•

Why would you want to lumber yourself with £27,000 of debt, simply so you can be in exactly the same position as everyone else?

•

Why do graduate programmes need to hire graduates? In what way does a degree in philosophy, or gender studies, or politics, or physics, make you any more qualified than a school leaver to work as a manager in Asda?

•

Why wouldn't you take a professional qualification, like from the Chartered Institute of Marketing, or Prince2? They are industry recognised, infinitely cheaper, shorter and often fall within the confines of CPD (and thus can be paid for by an employer).

•

In the face of increased competition in the sector, and plummeting admissions for profit-making courses, we're importing hundreds of thousands of students every few years. Universities are going out of their way to offer scholarships and funding to international students, ahead of home students. What chance do you have? Little to none. Thanks progressivism.

•

Worse yet, Universities, whether you are aware of it or not, prolong your adolescence. You've got no idea what real life is like. You are the 16 year old's of yesteryear; you are treading the path of least resistance, seeing it as a rite of passage. You become ingrained in your thought processes (people do as they get older, particularly between the ages of 18-22), particularly in modern Universities which encourage conformity and collaboration, and promote 'safe spaces' to protect you from other people's feelings.

•

The sense of entitlement, among my generation, is through the roof. 1 in 6 graduates expect to be earning £100,000 per year by the age of 30. What has reared this massive sense of entitlement and narcissism? The higher education sector. It's delusional, to say the least.



disagree with several things you've pointed out.
1) you're hardly in the same position as everyone else once you graduate. A degree in Art History from somewhere like Brighton is nothing like a degree in Spanish from Bristol. Yes you have £27,000 debt but your employability is different, your skills are different, and so on.

2) Are you trying to say that a school leaver aged 18 has the life experience to go straight onto a graduate program? Regardless of whether they've done b-tecs, IB or A-levels, a school leaver is hardly going to be able to keep up with the demands of a graduate job at, say, JP Morgan.

3) Most professional qualifications may require a degree. Also, doing a degree can also mitigate some of the barriers that a person without a degree faces. Eg, an Architecture degree from UCL means that you can go straight into an advanced professional qualification from whichever organisation is associated with that. Those without a degree have to take the introduction year first.

4) As far as I'm aware, (Russell Group) universities only allow need-based scholarships? Besides, international students (unless from the EU) have to return to their home country after their studies are over.

5) Prolonging adolescence? You mean to say that, as a school leaver at the ripe old age of 18, you're ready to take on the world of business, commerce, finance, politics and whatnot? Real life is very much real. You're paying for accommodation (via a loan), your own food, going out, transport, etc. You're in charge of your own finances, personal care and wellbeing. How is this not having an idea what real life is like?
Original post by marco14196
I never understood the need for a photography course. Photography is something you can only perfect through practice and analysing the works of other peoples. Its most definitely something you don't need to get a degree in.


It is rather silly; there are a lot of subjects offered as a degree that really shouldn't be. Drama, Music, Art and Dancing definatly shouldn't be degrees as they are by and large vocational, ditto with nursing, midwifery and a lot of others. I'm not quite sure whether humanities should be offered as a degree nor about languages and English tbh. We certainly don't need Creative Writing haha
Well OP, I would like to study Civil Engineering and I feel like work experience at asda won't help me get a job. Pure work experience at a company won't teach me all the skills required either.

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