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Why are more and more people going to University if graduate unemployment is high?

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Original post by ComputerMaths97
There's a reason the number of Medicine applicants is shooting down lol


Do you have sources of this? If so I'd imagine due to the low starting salaries, high amounts of training and the fact they can apply abroad and get that pays much better/hired quite easily. There is really no contest in a specialized doctor salary vs an engineer/tech experts. The doctor will almost certainly earn more.

The average salaries in the US for specialists is almost £200k/annually... Tech experts in the states earn £80k~ The demand for tech is great these days but the demand for healthcare is universal and always high.
Original post by ron_trns
Do you have sources of this? If so I'd imagine due to the low starting salaries, high amounts of training and the fact they can apply abroad and get that pays much better/hired quite easily. There is really no contest in a specialized doctor salary vs an engineer/tech experts. The doctor will almost certainly earn more.

The average salaries in the US for specialists is almost £200k/annually... Tech experts in the states earn £80k~ The demand for tech is great these days but the demand for healthcare is universal and always high.


Ohhhh yeah now I know why you think Medicine is so amazing, because all their statistics are available to the public I get it. A nice percentage of tech experts, say Computer Scientists, create their own companies and therefore have their own company profits, rather than being paid by the government or a big firm for example. So not tracked as a "salary". Can't exactly skip to specialists, because that's a minority. Also America have private health care services, unlike the UK, so huge profits = huge wages. UK doctors are paid within budget, as non profit so it's limited.
Original post by TSRFT8
Well obviously if someone fails from a good university compared to someone with a first. Im comparing two people with first one from RG and one from non RG who would employers prefer?



University and firsts aren't a big deal for graduate employers.

The reason people with firsts from any university tend to succeed in securing good jobs is because they have the other experiences, skill and work ethic that employers love (and they apply all three to finding employment).
Original post by ComputerMaths97
Ohhhh yeah now I know why you think Medicine is so amazing, because all their statistics are available to the public I get it. A nice percentage of tech experts, say Computer Scientists, create their own companies and therefore have their own company profits, rather than being paid by the government or a big firm for example. So not tracked as a "salary". Can't exactly skip to specialists, because that's a minority. Also America have private health care services, unlike the UK, so huge profits = huge wages. UK doctors are paid within budget, as non profit so it's limited.
I'm a self-employed/full time employed business software consultant/developer, my girlfriend is a doctor. I don't need to read statistics to know how much doctors are paid compared to us. You really don't know what you're on about dude, how about you get yourself some experience before you talk.

Many computer programmers own companies that barely move any money. It's extremely cut-throat and you often do insane hours with your own startup/lowball your offers to get clients.

I'm talking about doctors who have a specialized field, like anesthetists in the US earn like £200k but it's easy to find a job. A neurosurgeon averages in at £300-£400k although harder to get a job. Also not all UK doctors are budgeted a private consultant easily makes £600+/hour and I'm reminding you the UK is a horrible place for doctors. You do know that many software experts work weekends, especially on supporting 'Go Live'? They are both really stressful jobs.

How many years in industry do you have, I'm guessing 0?

Original post by PQ
University and firsts aren't a big deal for graduate employers.The reason people with firsts from any university tend to succeed in securing good jobs is because they have the other experiences, skill and work ethic that employers love (and they apply all three to finding employment).



I wish I could reiterate this statement a million times over, you'll get the interview along with any RG uni applicant (graduate recruitment intakes usually interview large amounts of people). What'll happen in the interview is what'll get you the job.
(edited 8 years ago)
University is if you want to earn a mediocre salary and work your ass off all day just to make somebody else rich
Original post by Cullen66
University is if you want to earn a mediocre salary and work your ass off all day just to make somebody else rich


No, that's what a corporate job is for and a university degree is not necessary to get said employment.
Original post by ron_trns
I wish I could reiterate this statement a million times over, you'll get the interview along with any RG uni applicant (graduate recruitment intakes usually interview large amounts of people). What'll happen in the interview is what'll get you the job.


Your profession utilises vocational skills likely ascertained from vocational study. Naturally, your university matters less than if you studied an academic subject. Therefore, your experience and opinion based off that experience are somewhat limited.
(edited 8 years ago)
I think significant change will only come when someone disaggregates the data.

To some extent a degree is a lottery ticket which allows people to compete for high paying/high status jobs.

There is very little information on what proportion of people win the lottery prize, what their background is and what the winners and the losers respectively end up doing and with what rewards.

For many of the losers, there may have been very little chance of winning and their overall rewards may be significantly lower than those who do not enter the competition as they join the workforce at 16-18.

Averages conceal as much as they reveal.


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Original post by madmadmax321
That's really not true, it just shows how miss informed you are. Yes for some things prestige does matter (law, finance, research to a extent (though not the most important factor by far)) most employers don't care, especially for things like engineering, nursing, dentistry, medicine, computer science (in fact sometimes going to a more prestige uni is a disadvantage for this one)
Why so? :s-smilie:
Original post by goldenshades
Why so? :s-smilie:


So universities that are higher up focus a lot more on the theory of comp sci rather than actually learning to program without a textbook in front of you. I knew a few people who couldnt program without a textbook in front of them because it wasn't emphasised in their degree (partly the unis fault partly theirs). They were all from russell group unis

So its not a disadvantage as in its a bad name on the cv, more like a disadvantage as in you sometimes haven't learned the required skills which are essential in comp sci for getting jobs
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by madmadmax321
So universities that are higher up focus a lot more on the theory of comp sci rather than actually learning to program without a textbook in front of you. I knew a few people who couldnt program without a textbook in front of them because it wasn't emphasised in their degree (partly the unis fault partly theirs). They were all from russell group unis

So its not a disadvantage as in its a bad name on the cv, more like a disadvantage as in you sometimes haven't learned the required skills which are essential in comp sci for getting jobs
What about for other courses such as Medicine/Dentistry? I understand that when it comes to applying for jobs going to a highly ranked uni won't guarantee you a place over another candidate who attended a lower ranked uni, but surely going to a highly ranked uni wouldn't put you at a disadvantage?
Reply 71
There is only one career I will accept and that's not happening without a PhD. Keep in mind that people
might be going after a specific interest and not money. Plus you don't know what the employment situation will be like by the time you're done with university. Also staying at uni gives you more time to think about what you want to do, while still getting qualifications.
Original post by goldenshades
What about for other courses such as Medicine/Dentistry? I understand that when it comes to applying for jobs going to a highly ranked uni won't guarantee you a place over another candidate who attended a lower ranked uni, but surely going to a highly ranked uni wouldn't put you at a disadvantage?


No it wouldn't disadvantage you at all, it was only because they didnt know such an essential skill in the case I mentioned.

Medicine courses are standardized across all universities anyway so it doesn't matter which medical school you go to
Original post by Aceadria
No, that's what a corporate job is for and a university degree is not necessary to get said employment.


So what job are you going to get then that you don't have to work all day to earn a mediocre salary whilst also making someone else (the CEO and executives) rich. I can't think of that many
Original post by Reader106
The problem is that UCAS and the idea that a degree will guarantee you a job is shoved down the throat of every student. And because everyone else is going, students feel as though it's obligatory.Even though graduates do, on average, earn more than a person who isn't educated to degree level, universities only provide the teaching and not the experience. When you've got 500 graduates competing for the same job, it's hard to distinguish yourself because you don't have the experience like someone who took a gap year and did an apprenticeship or something. It's sad that vocational courses aren't taken as seriously as they should because apparently if you don't go to university you're not as bright as those who do.


Right, students feel entitled to a high paying job, when in reality hundreds of other people will are also competing for that one job. Many graduates now are not able to get graduate jobs and are in a job that doesn't even require a degree. Really how much demand do you think there is from companies for Philosophy, History etc. students.

I think the government's reckless immigration policy has also played a part in this
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Cullen66
So what job are you going to get then that you don't have to work all day to earn a mediocre salary whilst also making someone else (the CEO and executives) rich. I can't think of that many


What point are you trying to make. This is swaying from the original topic.
The main point of going into university isn't just merely to pursue a job, but sometimes it's because some people purely like the idea of learning more about a specific area? I'd say that's very true for philosophy and english students. Personally, I chose theatre because I want to learn more about drama therapy in general.
Original post by ron_trns
Do you have sources of this? If so I'd imagine due to the low starting salaries, high amounts of training and the fact they can apply abroad and get that pays much better/hired quite easily. There is really no contest in a specialized doctor salary vs an engineer/tech experts. The doctor will almost certainly earn more.

The average salaries in the US for specialists is almost £200k/annually... Tech experts in the states earn £80k~ The demand for tech is great these days but the demand for healthcare is universal and always high.


This is wrong mate.

People in Silicon Valley (at the same career stage as a 'specialist' in Medicine) will be on the same if not more compensation. Average salaries for graduate (as in just finished uni) Software Engineers in SV are ~$100-120k (+ stock grants + bonuses; it's not unheard of to see grads pulling $150-170k all-in).

Work for a few years and that accelerates (especially the stock portion) drastically.

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Original post by misskittyalpaca
The main point of going into university isn't just merely to pursue a job, but sometimes it's because some people purely like the idea of learning more about a specific area? I'd say that's very true for philosophy and english students. Personally, I chose theatre because I want to learn more about drama therapy in general.


That is great that you are pursuing what you love, but dont you think you will regret that decision, in lets say 5-10 years down the line when you've bills and most likely a mortgage to pay.
Too many people look at the present and dont think about the future, there is nothing wrong with getting a degree in something that can get you a job, then doing something like arts, sports, or so on and so forth as a hobby.
My two cents is, your hobby wont pay the bills unless your the 0.01% of people who are beyond talented at said hobby.
Original post by Honey126
Why are more and more people going to university, even though graduate unemployment is very high and student fees have risen? I understand for Medicine, but for pretty much every other degree, such as Psychology, Philosophy History etc. When there just are barely any jobs for the graduates


I graduated my Psychology degree six months ago and I now work as a research assistant...

But you have a point, I don't think there are enough jobs for the amount of people graduating. I think there is an element of being persuaded by teachers when you are at sixth form. They advocate it because obviously it is the choice they made and it worked out well for them.

And student fees aren't as bad as people make out. It is a Conservatory ploy to dissuide people from going to university (perhaps because of the reasons posted in this thread). In reality, my monthly payments to the student loans company are about the same as people who graduated the year before me when the fees were only £3375 per year.

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