Who should pay for your education?
Hi,
I'm writing about public funding (tax-payers) vs private funding (mostly students themselves) for the Times Higher Education.
What do you think is the fairest system of university funding:
- Completely paid by the student upfront, with scholarships or loans only for those who cannot afford it
- Paid by the student but using public funds for 'income-contingent loans' to be repaid (UK's current system)
- Paid in some balance by students and the public (i.e. lower tuition fees supplemented by publicly funded subsidies)
Paid entirely by the public (free tuition).
Some questions to consider:
- What benefits do you think you personally get from a university education? Are they enough to warrant you (eventually) payingfor your entire education, or should the government/tax-payer contribute too?
- What benefits do you think society generally gets from having university-educated citizens? Do you think this is a reasonfor tax-payers to contribute?- Is the projected salary of a student after graduation at all relevant to how much they should pay?
- Who should pay for international students? Are the considerations any different given that international students may or may not contribute tax to society from their earnings?
Feel free to email [email protected] to share your thoughts privately.
Carly
I'm writing about public funding (tax-payers) vs private funding (mostly students themselves) for the Times Higher Education.
What do you think is the fairest system of university funding:
- Completely paid by the student upfront, with scholarships or loans only for those who cannot afford it
- Paid by the student but using public funds for 'income-contingent loans' to be repaid (UK's current system)
- Paid in some balance by students and the public (i.e. lower tuition fees supplemented by publicly funded subsidies)
Paid entirely by the public (free tuition).
Some questions to consider:
- What benefits do you think you personally get from a university education? Are they enough to warrant you (eventually) payingfor your entire education, or should the government/tax-payer contribute too?
- What benefits do you think society generally gets from having university-educated citizens? Do you think this is a reasonfor tax-payers to contribute?- Is the projected salary of a student after graduation at all relevant to how much they should pay?
- Who should pay for international students? Are the considerations any different given that international students may or may not contribute tax to society from their earnings?
Feel free to email [email protected] to share your thoughts privately.
Carly
(edited 8 years ago)
Scroll to see replies
I hear countries that have free tuition compensate getting money by taking away other things like heating/electricity 
if the money's not coming from one place it's coming from another!
"fair" is 50/50. Annoying but fair. So yes "fair" would be students pay some, public pays some. Fair however is counterproductive.
if the money's not coming from one place it's coming from another!"fair" is 50/50. Annoying but fair. So yes "fair" would be students pay some, public pays some. Fair however is counterproductive.
(edited 8 years ago)
What do you think is the fairest system of university funding:
- Completely paid by the student upfront, with scholarships or loans only for those who cannot afford it
Some questions to consider:
- What benefits do you think you personally get from a university education? Are they enough to warrant you (eventually) payingfor your entire education, or should the government/tax-payer contribute too?
Course I'm applying to is a vocational course and really is the main way to get into the career I want to get into. To get chartered status in this career path I also need the equivalent of a masters level of education. Yes they do warrant for paying for the entirety because without a masters level I won't be earning as much as if I would with chartered status.
- What benefits do you think society generally gets from having university-educated citizens? Do you think this is a reasonfor tax-payers to contribute?- Is the projected salary of a student after graduation at all relevant to how much they should pay?
Depends on the courses. Really without STEM subjects we won't have highly educated engineers, scientists etc. Really a lot of subjects are just taken for enjoyment and you get skills which are common in most degrees so no not a reason tax payers should contribute. No you pay for what you get, you should just pay more each year minimum depending on your wage.
- Who should pay for international students? Are the considerations any different given that international students may or may not contribute tax to society from their earnings?
No one, students pay for themselves whoever they are.
- Completely paid by the student upfront, with scholarships or loans only for those who cannot afford it
Some questions to consider:
- What benefits do you think you personally get from a university education? Are they enough to warrant you (eventually) payingfor your entire education, or should the government/tax-payer contribute too?
Course I'm applying to is a vocational course and really is the main way to get into the career I want to get into. To get chartered status in this career path I also need the equivalent of a masters level of education. Yes they do warrant for paying for the entirety because without a masters level I won't be earning as much as if I would with chartered status.
- What benefits do you think society generally gets from having university-educated citizens? Do you think this is a reasonfor tax-payers to contribute?- Is the projected salary of a student after graduation at all relevant to how much they should pay?
Depends on the courses. Really without STEM subjects we won't have highly educated engineers, scientists etc. Really a lot of subjects are just taken for enjoyment and you get skills which are common in most degrees so no not a reason tax payers should contribute. No you pay for what you get, you should just pay more each year minimum depending on your wage.
- Who should pay for international students? Are the considerations any different given that international students may or may not contribute tax to society from their earnings?
No one, students pay for themselves whoever they are.
(edited 8 years ago)
As it stands I think that the best way of paying to go to universities in the UK is 'income-contingent loans' (UK's current system) although if the country had more money then it should be paid by the government as this is much fairer. However I do add that the subsidising of the other nations (prominently Scotlands) higher education isn't right - fees should be the same for everyone. International students should have to pay for higher education in the UK themselves - it is a privilege to be educated here, not a right.
Completely paid by the student upfront, with scholarships or loans only for those who cannot afford it. (+ scholarships for those who can afford it - e.g. as an incentive)
Why should others be forced to pay for my education? If our society actually believed that they had a responsibility to pay for the higher education of our students, we wouldn't need the government to force people to.
... just waiting for an ethically retarded positive externalities argument. I wish utilitarianism would just die. It's almost as morally bankrupt as religion at this point.
Why should others be forced to pay for my education? If our society actually believed that they had a responsibility to pay for the higher education of our students, we wouldn't need the government to force people to.
... just waiting for an ethically retarded positive externalities argument. I wish utilitarianism would just die. It's almost as morally bankrupt as religion at this point.
Original post by george-90
Completely paid by the student upfront, with scholarships or loans only for those who cannot afford it. (+ scholarships for those who can afford it - e.g. as an incentive)
Why should others be forced to pay for my education? If our society actually believed that they had a responsibility to pay for the higher education of our students, we wouldn't need the government to force people to.
... just waiting for an ethically retarded positive externalities argument. I wish utilitarianism would just die. It's almost as morally bankrupt as religion at this point.
Why should others be forced to pay for my education? If our society actually believed that they had a responsibility to pay for the higher education of our students, we wouldn't need the government to force people to.
... just waiting for an ethically retarded positive externalities argument. I wish utilitarianism would just die. It's almost as morally bankrupt as religion at this point.
So how do you decide who can afford it? My parents make about £50k between them (they have 3 kids) so I've never been eligible for any bursaries (when they existed). Would I be eligible for a loan? Or would I just not go to university?
Society should pay because it benefits society as much as the student, and because people shouldn't be put off from pursuing an education because of the cost.
Why should others be forced to pay for my education? If our society actually believed that they had a responsibility to pay for the higher education of our students, we wouldn't need the government to force people to.
You could say exactly the same thing for infrastructure, the NHS, state schools and everything else that's paid for with taxes.
Original post by george-90
Why should others be forced to pay for my education? If our society actually believed that they had a responsibility to pay for the higher education of our students, we wouldn't need the government to force people to.
Current £9,000 loans were unpopular when they were introduced. They were imposed on the populace, so it is wrong to think that government forced our paying SFE loans onto us. It was the other way round: they forced our not paying for students' tuition.
Original post by JordanL_
So how do you decide who can afford it? My parents make about £50k between them (they have 3 kids) so I've never been eligible for any bursaries (when they existed). Would I be eligible for a loan? Or would I just not go to university?
Firstly, I think I have perhaps misunderstood what the OP meant by 'loans'. I meant 'loans' as in private sector loans, not government provided loans.
It is up to the individual (and his/her party - i.e. family) and the university to decide via private discussion whether or not each individual is able to afford it. If you could not acquire a private loan, or a scholarship, then you would not go to university.
Original post by JordanL_
Society should pay because it benefits society as much as the student, and because people shouldn't be put off from pursuing an education because of the cost.
Just as I predicted. Would you say that, in Saudi Arabia for instance, homosexuality should be illegal? You argument justifies this stance. The aggregate of the satisfaction that the millions of Saudi derive from a lack of homosexuals far exceeds that of the homosexuals from their ability to practice homosexuality. I will say again, utilitarianism is morally bankrupt.
Original post by JordanL_
You could say exactly the same thing for infrastructure, the NHS, state schools and everything else that's paid for with taxes.
I would and do. In my opinion, coercion is no basis for the funding of education, healthcare, etc. I'm interested to read a rebuttal of this comment that I made - "If our society actually believed that they had a responsibility to pay for the higher education of our students, we wouldn't need the government to force people to. "
Original post by callum_law
Current £9,000 loans were unpopular when they were introduced. They were imposed on the populace, so it is wrong to think that government forced our paying SFE loans onto us. It was the other way round: they forced our not paying for students' tuition.
I said 'others' as in those who are paying taxes and are not receiving my education i.e. UK taxpayers subtract me. Your point doesn't follow.
Original post by JordanL_
You could say exactly the same thing for infrastructure, the NHS, state schools and everything else that's paid for with taxes.
You could say exactly the same thing for infrastructure, the NHS, state schools and everything else that's paid for with taxes.
He's an extreme capitalist market type.
Original post by george-90
I said 'others' as in those who are paying taxes and are not receiving my education i.e. UK taxpayers subtract me. Your point doesn't follow.
No, it was your use of "loans" without expansion which does not follow. If you wish to get into a meaningful discussion, you first must define your terms.
Our government has acted with tacit and direct approval that support for students should be maintained. If we are free as individuals to invest our money in any way we wish, we too are free to exercise our vote to support students with government-issued tuition loans. Your argument is quite meaningless.
Original post by callum_law
No, it was your use of "loans" without expansion which does not follow. If you wish to get into a meaningful discussion, you first must define your terms.
Loans is not a vague, strange, or particularly nuanced word. I shouldn't have to expand on such a simple term by default, since I was using it's normal and unaltered meaning. I have also clarified that I meant loan as in a private sector loan - not a government provided loan. Though I can easily understand if you missed this. And, you have not refuted my rebuttal of why your first comment is nonsense.
Original post by callum_law
Our government has acted with tacit and direct approval that support for students should be maintained. If we are free as individuals to invest our money in any way we wish, we too are free to exercise our vote to support students with government-issued tuition loans. Your argument is quite meaningless.
Just because people supported a policy, doesn't make it just. Your argument justifies every single policy that had public support. It is an argument would justify slavery, the death penalty, etc. Your argument is *It is right because it has approval and support*. I'll bring up Saudi Arabia again. If it was a democracy, would the execution of homosexuals be justified?
Original post by george-90
Loans is not a vague, strange, or particularly nuanced word.
In the context of student loans, "loans" does not mean "private loans". If you want to have a meaningful discussion, first you need to define your terms. Your point was therefore confused, hence my talking to you right now.
Just because people supported a policy, doesn't make it just.
That was not my argument. You referred, in your confused point I first quoted, about political legitimacy (i.e. what people want). That is what I was addressing, not abstract concepts such as "justness". If you want to have a meaningful discussion, you first need to address the points made and not exaggerate or misdirect.
Education should always be free. As a Norwegian, we have no tuition fees, and all universities are public (still amongst the best in the world), and we only pay the small amount of 40£ each semester. On top of this, as a student, you have the right to be granted over 3k£ in scholarships (and 4k£ in loans, for a total of roughly 8k£ a year) by the state, so that you can economically sustain yourself while studying. Which ends in a highly educated population, who later in life pay back through taxes. It should be the task of the state to assure that their youth are educated.
Original post by m1m2
Education should always be free. As a Norwegian, we have no tuition fees, and all universities are public (still amongst the best in the world), and we only pay the small amount of 40£ each semester. On top of this, as a student, you have the right to be granted over 3k£ in scholarships (and 4k£ in loans, for a total of roughly 8k£ a year) by the state, so that you can economically sustain yourself while studying. Which ends in a highly educated population, who later in life pay back through taxes. It should be the task of the state to assure that their youth are educated.
Sorry but what is the tax rate in Norway? That just sounds ridiculous with that amount paid in and getting more in loans. Yes its the task of the state to make sure that the youth are educated, not adults. Also people going to university does not result in more money in taxes because quite frankly a lot don't come out with that large wages and for quite a while. The UK isn't exactly having the best time with taxes and with having the taxpayer paying for tuition fees as well as larger loans you are going to have a much larger tax rate which isn't exactly going to make everyone happy.
Original post by callum_law
In the context of student loans, "loans" does not mean "private loans". If you want to have a meaningful discussion, first you need to define your terms. Your point was therefore confused, hence my talking to you right now.
In the context of this thread, that is not true. In general it would be, but since we are discussing different methods of payment, and are thus in the domain of economics, one should assume that the term is used in its most basic sense within said domain. I'll admit it was a cause for confusion, and a failure on my part to edit my original post for clarification, though I did clarify in my second comment.
Original post by callum_law
That was not my argument. You referred, in your confused point I first quoted, about political legitimacy (i.e. what people want). That is what I was addressing, not abstract concepts such as "justness". If you want to have a meaningful discussion, you first need to address the points made and not exaggerate or misdirect.
I didn't refer to political legitimacy, but social and ethical responsibility - " If our society actually believed...". It is a comment on society, not our government, or our political structure. That is why I assumed you were making an ethical argument. What you interpreted as my confusion was my valid response to a false assumption that was arrived at by sound intellectual means, due to your false interpretation of what I said. If you were making an ethical argument, my point would be valid. Since you weren't, I will concede that it is not valid thusly, but through no intellectual fault of my own.
Original post by george-90
x
I have no interest in an A-Leveller trying to save face.
Original post by m1m2
Education should always be free.
Nothing is free.
I would have the current system, raise fees to maximum £10000 a year. However I would offer reductions in fees for the cleverest pupils and the poorest.
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