Why is almost all the best music made by men?
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Original post by difeo
Discuss.
Successful music, this is true (in history mostly).
A better question would be: Why are 'geniuses' almost always men?
The answer is intelligence, men are not more intelligent than women. However, whilst men's intelligence overall is the same, it vary much more from person to person. Women are very similar in intelligence, men not so.
This is why 'chavs', people of low-intelligence, are most male. This is why extremely clever people are male. This is also partly why men make the bigest hits.
However, I think there is more to it. Men are, in general, risk-takers, we can see this from an early age. This means that when it comes to music they go ahead with something completly new, which the majority of the time doesn't work, but when it does, you get the best music.
There is also the fact that general everyday sexism exists.
Unintentionally boys are general more encouraged to start playing instruments like the guitar or the drums, which most of the music people listen to these days is played with. If you consider the number of boys that pick up the guitar, compared to the number of girls I think you'll find a difference. Girls are more encouraged by society to date the musician, guys are encouraged to become the musician. I'm sure that makes an impact.
The guitar or the drums are generally considered 'male' instruments. If you look at classical music the same is true. You'll find there are more successful female musicians who play string instruments or woodwind instruments, which are considered to be more feminine instruments, than there are female brass players, since brass instruments are generally considered more masculine.
Also record industries are dominated by men who sexualise female artists so there's that too. And not long ago it wouldn't have been 'suitable' for a woman to be a musician in the same way that a man could have that freedom. The female artists who are well known, such as Joan Jett and Kim Gordon, are very confident because they had to compete against so many men. At least that's my take.
We live in a sexist world- its that simple really.
Unintentionally boys are general more encouraged to start playing instruments like the guitar or the drums, which most of the music people listen to these days is played with. If you consider the number of boys that pick up the guitar, compared to the number of girls I think you'll find a difference. Girls are more encouraged by society to date the musician, guys are encouraged to become the musician. I'm sure that makes an impact.
The guitar or the drums are generally considered 'male' instruments. If you look at classical music the same is true. You'll find there are more successful female musicians who play string instruments or woodwind instruments, which are considered to be more feminine instruments, than there are female brass players, since brass instruments are generally considered more masculine.
Also record industries are dominated by men who sexualise female artists so there's that too. And not long ago it wouldn't have been 'suitable' for a woman to be a musician in the same way that a man could have that freedom. The female artists who are well known, such as Joan Jett and Kim Gordon, are very confident because they had to compete against so many men. At least that's my take.
We live in a sexist world- its that simple really.
Original post by Ya Dunno 5
Well Adele and Rihanna are currently topping the charts, so I beg to differ.
Just thought I should add - they don’t actually make a lot of their music. Their producers are almost always men and a majority of their song writers are men, their vocal arrangers are men. The only female you’re getting is the voice and occasional contribution to songwriting.
Original post by 3121
Just thought I should add - they don’t actually make a lot of their music. Their producers are almost always men and a majority of their song writers are men, their vocal arrangers are men. The only female you’re getting is the voice and occasional contribution to songwriting.
Good point. You are right of course, also what is behind your username? 3121?
@difeo good thread btw.
Original post by difeo
Discuss.
Yeah, I’m a girl and even I will admit that all the best music is made by men. Especially when it comes to rock music there are almost no female artists at all that are decent.
Original post by 3121
Just thought I should add - they don’t actually make a lot of their music. Their producers are almost always men and a majority of their song writers are men, their vocal arrangers are men. The only female you’re getting is the voice and occasional contribution to songwriting.
You're not wrong, but writing it is only half the job. The other half is the execution
You can write the best song you want, but the execution is key. Some people do it better than others. There are countless examples of covers that were more popular than the originals which prove just that.
Girls Just Wanna Have Fun... Cyndi Lauper right? Listen to the original by Robert Hazard, this is one of the best examples of what I mean here. Cyndi metaphorically kills the song, she's great. Robert Hazard literally killed the song, the original song is pretty bad although I do believe that Robert's original was only a demo recording. Still, if Robert went on to release it, I doubt it would've gone anywhere anyway.
How about Tainted Love? Marilyn Manson? Soft Cell? Try Gloria Jones. It's a good original, but it wasn't popular at the time, in fact, it was a commercial flop for Gloria.
Hound Dog? Elvis right? More like Willie Mae "big Mama" Thornton
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by difeo
discuss.
taylor swift, rihanna, adele, ariana grande, mariah carey, aretha franklin, whitney houston, celine dion
ONLY A FEW OF THE MANY AMAZING FEMALE ARTISTS OUT THERE
Original post by ForeverAQx
taylor swift, rihanna, adele, ariana grande, mariah carey, aretha franklin, whitney houston, celine dion
ONLY A FEW OF THE MANY AMAZING FEMALE ARTISTS OUT THERE
ONLY A FEW OF THE MANY AMAZING FEMALE ARTISTS OUT THERE
But most of those are shite and OP didn't say there weren't any good female musicians.
I beg to differ, ariana, nicki, cardi b, bilie eilish, halsey, anne-marie, mabel, all on the charts. Sure, some aren't the best artists but there are still iconic female artists that will never be forgotten; cher, britney, whitney, aretha, rihanna, adele, beyonce, xtina, spice girls, only to name a few.
If you're talking about long term, yeah, because you're the people that didn't even let women get on stage some 50 years ago.
If you're talking about long term, yeah, because you're the people that didn't even let women get on stage some 50 years ago.
Original post by ForeverAQx
taylor swift, rihanna, adele, ariana grande, mariah carey, aretha franklin, whitney houston, celine dion
ONLY A FEW OF THE MANY AMAZING FEMALE ARTISTS OUT THERE
ONLY A FEW OF THE MANY AMAZING FEMALE ARTISTS OUT THERE
Seems like you don't understand the question
The nub of the question is interesting, although I wouldn't have phrased it so bluntly.
While the charts may say one thing (that certain female artists are very popular), critic choices of 'best albums' are generally dominated by male artists/bands. Which is interesting, as the usual trope that record companies rely on young, attractive women to sell records does seem to be refuted by the data.
It seems to me that the reason is entirely cultural. People as a whole don't seem to view women as 'valid musicians' (probably BECAUSE record companies have used young, attractive women to sell records) and so female musicians don't think they can make a career of their art and therefore don't pursue music.
Take a look at Myrkur: a talented woman makes an album ("M") which by most people's standards is top notch, even if it does sound just like early Ulver. People relentlessly criticised that album, and the artist, because she's an attractive woman being pushed forward by a record label and because it sounds just like early Ulver. I've nothing against her work personally, I just don't like the commercialisation of art in that way. That's the record label's fault more than anything, though.
I appreciate this may all be quite controversial, but no offence is intended and I remain open minded.
While the charts may say one thing (that certain female artists are very popular), critic choices of 'best albums' are generally dominated by male artists/bands. Which is interesting, as the usual trope that record companies rely on young, attractive women to sell records does seem to be refuted by the data.
It seems to me that the reason is entirely cultural. People as a whole don't seem to view women as 'valid musicians' (probably BECAUSE record companies have used young, attractive women to sell records) and so female musicians don't think they can make a career of their art and therefore don't pursue music.
Take a look at Myrkur: a talented woman makes an album ("M") which by most people's standards is top notch, even if it does sound just like early Ulver. People relentlessly criticised that album, and the artist, because she's an attractive woman being pushed forward by a record label and because it sounds just like early Ulver. I've nothing against her work personally, I just don't like the commercialisation of art in that way. That's the record label's fault more than anything, though.
I appreciate this may all be quite controversial, but no offence is intended and I remain open minded.
Original post by Manitude
The nub of the question is interesting, although I wouldn't have phrased it so bluntly.
While the charts may say one thing (that certain female artists are very popular), critic choices of 'best albums' are generally dominated by male artists/bands. Which is interesting, as the usual trope that record companies rely on young, attractive women to sell records does seem to be refuted by the data.
It seems to me that the reason is entirely cultural. People as a whole don't seem to view women as 'valid musicians' (probably BECAUSE record companies have used young, attractive women to sell records) and so female musicians don't think they can make a career of their art and therefore don't pursue music.
Take a look at Myrkur: a talented woman makes an album ("M"
which by most people's standards is top notch, even if it does sound just like early Ulver. People relentlessly criticised that album, and the artist, because she's an attractive woman being pushed forward by a record label and because it sounds just like early Ulver. I've nothing against her work personally, I just don't like the commercialisation of art in that way. That's the record label's fault more than anything, though.
I appreciate this may all be quite controversial, but no offence is intended and I remain open minded.
While the charts may say one thing (that certain female artists are very popular), critic choices of 'best albums' are generally dominated by male artists/bands. Which is interesting, as the usual trope that record companies rely on young, attractive women to sell records does seem to be refuted by the data.
It seems to me that the reason is entirely cultural. People as a whole don't seem to view women as 'valid musicians' (probably BECAUSE record companies have used young, attractive women to sell records) and so female musicians don't think they can make a career of their art and therefore don't pursue music.
Take a look at Myrkur: a talented woman makes an album ("M"
which by most people's standards is top notch, even if it does sound just like early Ulver. People relentlessly criticised that album, and the artist, because she's an attractive woman being pushed forward by a record label and because it sounds just like early Ulver. I've nothing against her work personally, I just don't like the commercialisation of art in that way. That's the record label's fault more than anything, though.I appreciate this may all be quite controversial, but no offence is intended and I remain open minded.
Hey a fellow Myrkur fan. I really enjoy her stuff, even if it's a tad cheesy at points haha.
Anyway, I understand the place the question is coming from. In a lot of 'alternative' music circles, it's easy to feel like most popular bands are all men. There is no shortage of amazing female artists, Bjork and Grouper being my favourites, but it's likely largely down to what music is pushed and what music you are drawn to which somewhat closes your perception of all music.
Original post by bingoringo
Hey a fellow Myrkur fan. I really enjoy her stuff, even if it's a tad cheesy at points haha.
Anyway, I understand the place the question is coming from. In a lot of 'alternative' music circles, it's easy to feel like most popular bands are all men. There is no shortage of amazing female artists, Bjork and Grouper being my favourites, but it's likely largely down to what music is pushed and what music you are drawn to which somewhat closes your perception of all music.
Anyway, I understand the place the question is coming from. In a lot of 'alternative' music circles, it's easy to feel like most popular bands are all men. There is no shortage of amazing female artists, Bjork and Grouper being my favourites, but it's likely largely down to what music is pushed and what music you are drawn to which somewhat closes your perception of all music.
There are absolutely some incredibly talented women. Bjork is a great example of someone who's continued to be popular/well respected rather than put out a few singles and an album or two and then disappear. But then there are dozens of male artists who've done the same thing. It is very disproportionate.
I went through my entire music collection and found 8 artists that had at least one female musician. Out of 250 or so albums in total, women contributed to about 15, maybe 20 at a push.
Original post by Manitude
There are absolutely some incredibly talented women. Bjork is a great example of someone who's continued to be popular/well respected rather than put out a few singles and an album or two and then disappear. But then there are dozens of male artists who've done the same thing. It is very disproportionate.
I went through my entire music collection and found 8 artists that had at least one female musician. Out of 250 or so albums in total, women contributed to about 15, maybe 20 at a push.
I went through my entire music collection and found 8 artists that had at least one female musician. Out of 250 or so albums in total, women contributed to about 15, maybe 20 at a push.
Yeah, your definitely right there. I have some mixed bands I enjoy, but most solo artists I like are men. Maybe it's inherent societal sexism that pushes women away from genres I generally like.
Generally speaking, other than 'patriarchy', it's down to how the genders are wired.
Women sung more about love and the emotional side. Some men can't relate to that. However the men sung about everything, and when they sung about love it was usually in a cool way. Men could relate as well as women.
But also, sometimes women just liked who was singing it. It still happens today. I didn't see boys reacting to Taylor Swift or Britney the same way girls have gone ****ing animalistic for everyone from Elvis to Michael Jackson to Bieber and One Direction.
Women sung more about love and the emotional side. Some men can't relate to that. However the men sung about everything, and when they sung about love it was usually in a cool way. Men could relate as well as women.
But also, sometimes women just liked who was singing it. It still happens today. I didn't see boys reacting to Taylor Swift or Britney the same way girls have gone ****ing animalistic for everyone from Elvis to Michael Jackson to Bieber and One Direction.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by TheMcSame
You're not wrong, but writing it is only half the job. The other half is the execution
You can write the best song you want, but the execution is key. Some people do it better than others. There are countless examples of covers that were more popular than the originals which prove just that.
Girls Just Wanna Have Fun... Cyndi Lauper right? Listen to the original by Robert Hazard, this is one of the best examples of what I mean here. Cyndi metaphorically kills the song, she's great. Robert Hazard literally killed the song, the original song is pretty bad although I do believe that Robert's original was only a demo recording. Still, if Robert went on to release it, I doubt it would've gone anywhere anyway.
How about Tainted Love? Marilyn Manson? Soft Cell? Try Gloria Jones. It's a good original, but it wasn't popular at the time, in fact, it was a commercial flop for Gloria.
Hound Dog? Elvis right? More like Willie Mae "big Mama" Thornton
You can write the best song you want, but the execution is key. Some people do it better than others. There are countless examples of covers that were more popular than the originals which prove just that.
Girls Just Wanna Have Fun... Cyndi Lauper right? Listen to the original by Robert Hazard, this is one of the best examples of what I mean here. Cyndi metaphorically kills the song, she's great. Robert Hazard literally killed the song, the original song is pretty bad although I do believe that Robert's original was only a demo recording. Still, if Robert went on to release it, I doubt it would've gone anywhere anyway.
How about Tainted Love? Marilyn Manson? Soft Cell? Try Gloria Jones. It's a good original, but it wasn't popular at the time, in fact, it was a commercial flop for Gloria.
Hound Dog? Elvis right? More like Willie Mae "big Mama" Thornton
Love that song! She sounds amazing on it but again the vocal arrangements and production were done by men. A lot cover songs are way better, not the covers you find on YouTube though. I know a lot girls who like music or would want to go into music but they can offer is their voice. Instruments? Nope, maybe some average keyboard playing. Music theory? Little to none.
Also check out Cyndi’s cover of Prince’s When You Were Mine, guarantee your ears will be bleeding by the end.
Original post by bria.vp
I beg to differ, ariana, nicki, cardi b, bilie eilish, halsey, anne-marie, mabel, all on the charts. Sure, some aren't the best artists but there are still iconic female artists that will never be forgotten; cher, britney, whitney, aretha, rihanna, adele, beyonce, xtina, spice girls, only to name a few.
If you're talking about long term, yeah, because you're the people that didn't even let women get on stage some 50 years ago.
If you're talking about long term, yeah, because you're the people that didn't even let women get on stage some 50 years ago.
Women have always been encouraged to get on stage? Especially in music. But I can’t think of any prominent female ‘artists’ that actually take interest in music as an art. The whole production process, the songwriting (not common amongst most females but a good few are out there), playing instruments, etc. All they focus on is vocals and most the time they’re told how to sing, like Ariana grande. An amazing voice but she couldn’t write a song to save her life, she cant even co produce a song and last time I checked she cant even play piano?
Original post by 3121
Women have always been encouraged to get on stage? Especially in music. But I can’t think of any prominent female ‘artists’ that actually take interest in music as an art. The whole production process, the songwriting (not common amongst most females but a good few are out there), playing instruments, etc. All they focus on is vocals and most the time they’re told how to sing, like Ariana grande. An amazing voice but she couldn’t write a song to save her life, she cant even co produce a song and last time I checked she cant even play piano?
LOOOOOL yeah okay sweetener was literally majority of her work, she decided and made things her way, and obviously she had help, aka her producer because artists aren’t allowed to produce their own songs if theyre not a producer. Ariana loves songwriting and was in her studio for days on end for months making sweetener. You dont know and dont understand the music production process, hence why you think that.
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