U-turning on mini roundabouts
What are your thoughts on this?
I have nothing against it per se and have done it many times myself, traffic permitting. However, what does wind me up is people's lack of judgment. A few times in the past few years, including today, I've been looking to my right approaching a roundabout, seen that it's clear, then as usual checked my front again just before entering the roundabout - only to have to whack the brakes on because some idiot from the exit across, who should be giving way to me as he's on my left, is making a U turn and cutting directly across my path. Granted, I had yet to reach the roundabout just as he was entering, but clearly it was a mis-timing on their part as to how long they thought it'd take to turn - I can't imagine they'd cut across me like that if they were simply turning right.
I guess if I was to crash into his passenger side then I'd be held liable as I'd technically not given way to traffic already on the roundabout, but every time if I'd not gotten my brakes on they'd have hit me on the driver's side, which would indicate that they'd failed to give way to me and turned into me. The highway code does also state that we should avoid making U turns on mini roundabouts and I can see why, there's always the potential for accidents.
I have nothing against it per se and have done it many times myself, traffic permitting. However, what does wind me up is people's lack of judgment. A few times in the past few years, including today, I've been looking to my right approaching a roundabout, seen that it's clear, then as usual checked my front again just before entering the roundabout - only to have to whack the brakes on because some idiot from the exit across, who should be giving way to me as he's on my left, is making a U turn and cutting directly across my path. Granted, I had yet to reach the roundabout just as he was entering, but clearly it was a mis-timing on their part as to how long they thought it'd take to turn - I can't imagine they'd cut across me like that if they were simply turning right.
I guess if I was to crash into his passenger side then I'd be held liable as I'd technically not given way to traffic already on the roundabout, but every time if I'd not gotten my brakes on they'd have hit me on the driver's side, which would indicate that they'd failed to give way to me and turned into me. The highway code does also state that we should avoid making U turns on mini roundabouts and I can see why, there's always the potential for accidents.
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Original post by WoodyMKC
What are your thoughts on this?
some idiot from the exit across, who should be giving way to me as he's on my left, is making a U turn and cutting directly across my path.
some idiot from the exit across, who should be giving way to me as he's on my left, is making a U turn and cutting directly across my path.
??? they'd be on your right. And indicating right to cut across you, so why would you expect them not to take that path, even if they were just turning right?
Heavily against the idea of doing u turns on minis here. It's dangerous because people don't expect it, no doubt part of that is down to the highway code advising against it. If cars had a way of communicating to other drivers that they were doing a U turn then I'd be for it, but a directional indicator can be misleading when someone is doing a u turn on such a small piece of road.
I have to ask, what's the motive behind doing a U turn at a mini roundabout rather than doing the much safer thing and turning down a side street and doing a turn in the road?
I have to ask, what's the motive behind doing a U turn at a mini roundabout rather than doing the much safer thing and turning down a side street and doing a turn in the road?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by XMaramena
??? they'd be on your right. And indicating right to cut across you, so why would you expect them not to take that path, even if they were just turning right?
Maybe I didn't explain the situation clearly enough. Mini roundabouts are, most often, 3 exits. If I were to approach the roundabout, then the 2nd exit as I look at it would be where I'd initially be checking to see if there's any traffic to give way to - any traffic on the first exit as I look (which is directly opposite in this situation), should be looking to give way to me, as I'm coming from the exit to their right. Pretty basic situation that any qualified driver should comprehend if they were in such a situation.
So why, then, would someone see me about to enter the roundabout, and enter it themselves knowing they're about to turn into my path??? They wouldn't cut across if they were going ahead and I was turning right.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by TheMcSame
Heavily against the idea of doing u turns on minis here. It's dangerous because people don't expect it, no doubt part of that is down to the highway code advising against it. If cars had a way of communicating to other drivers that they were doing a U turn then I'd be for it, but a directional indicator can be misleading when someone is doing a u turn on such a small piece of road.
I have to ask, what's the motive behind doing a U turn at a mini roundabout rather than doing the much safer thing and turning down a side street and doing a turn in the road?
I have to ask, what's the motive behind doing a U turn at a mini roundabout rather than doing the much safer thing and turning down a side street and doing a turn in the road?
Exactly. I just don't get how someone can see someone approaching from the exit they should be giving way to and not recognising that they would be cutting right in front of that person, who would not be looking to give way to them because you generally don't look to give way to someone two exits counterclockwise. Certainly highlights the need to check ahead before you enter the roundabout, never know who's gonna be there when they shouldn't be.
Original post by WoodyMKC
Maybe I didn't explain the situation clearly enough. Mini roundabouts are, most often, 3 exits. If I were to approach the roundabout, then the 2nd exit as I look at it would be where I'd initially be checking to see if there's any traffic to give way to - any traffic on the first exit as I look (which is directly opposite in this situation), should be looking to give way to me, as I'm coming from the exit to their right. Pretty basic situation that any qualified driver should comprehend if they were in such a situation.
So why, then, would someone see me about to enter the roundabout, and enter it themselves knowing they're about to turn right??? They wouldn't cut across if there were an exit to their immediate right.
So why, then, would someone see me about to enter the roundabout, and enter it themselves knowing they're about to turn right??? They wouldn't cut across if there were an exit to their immediate right.
If there are two exits on a roundabout directly opposite one another then neither has priority over the other - each is just as much to the right! If the roundabout is small enough that both cars can't join at the same time then the priority goes to whoever reaches the roundabout first. Even making a U turn they'll still be coming from your right hand side... so I'm not quite sure what the issue is. Admittedly I'll only U turn on a mini roundabout if there's more or less nothing else around, but I can't think of a time when I've ever had to slam on the brakes at a mini roundabout due to someone U turning.
Original post by CurlyBen
If there are two exits on a roundabout directly opposite one another then neither has priority over the other - each is just as much to the right! If the roundabout is small enough that both cars can't join at the same time then the priority goes to whoever reaches the roundabout first. Even making a U turn they'll still be coming from your right hand side... so I'm not quite sure what the issue is. Admittedly I'll only U turn on a mini roundabout if there's more or less nothing else around, but I can't think of a time when I've ever had to slam on the brakes at a mini roundabout due to someone U turning.
I was taught by my instructor (a non-independent and highly reputable guy) that at a mini roundabout, traffic approaching from the right would be regarded as traffic approaching from the exit diectly to your right, i.e. one exit counterclockwise from your position - simply looking for traffic approaching from the right is self regulating on a normal roundabout, but on a mini we're taught to check the nearest exit to our right as simply looking to see if there's any traffic already on the roundabout wouldn't really work. So people generally will stop and give way to people approaching from straight head of them if that's the first exit to their right. I think the problem lies in people misjudging the speed of the approaching traffic when they start to turn.
Original post by WoodyMKC
I was taught by my instructor (a non-independent and highly reputable guy) that at a mini roundabout, traffic approaching from the right would be regarded as traffic approaching from the exit diectly to your right, i.e. one exit counterclockwise from your position - simply looking for traffic approaching from the right is self regulating on a normal roundabout, but on a mini we're taught to check the nearest exit to our right as simply looking to see if there's any traffic already on the roundabout wouldn't really work. So people generally will stop and give way to people approaching from straight head of them if that's the first exit to their right. I think the problem lies in people misjudging the speed of the approaching traffic when they start to turn.
It's been over a decade since I had an instructor, but on a practical basis you should be looking at every exit on a mini roundabout. The way other cars are approaching (speed, road positioning, indicators etc.) should give you a pretty good idea of what they're about to do. If it doesn't, drive defensively and slow up until you do, and don't make a manoeuvre which relies on someone else doing what you expect them to do.
Original post by WoodyMKC
Maybe I didn't explain the situation clearly enough. Mini roundabouts are, most often, 3 exits. If I were to approach the roundabout, then the 2nd exit as I look at it would be where I'd initially be checking to see if there's any traffic to give way to - any traffic on the first exit as I look (which is directly opposite in this situation), should be looking to give way to me, as I'm coming from the exit to their right. Pretty basic situation that any qualified driver should comprehend if they were in such a situation.
So why, then, would someone see me about to enter the roundabout, and enter it themselves knowing they're about to turn into my path??? They wouldn't cut across if they were going ahead and I was turning right.
So why, then, would someone see me about to enter the roundabout, and enter it themselves knowing they're about to turn into my path??? They wouldn't cut across if they were going ahead and I was turning right.
I see - most of them round where I live are 4 exits.
Original post by CurlyBen
It's been over a decade since I had an instructor, but on a practical basis you should be looking at every exit on a mini roundabout. The way other cars are approaching (speed, road positioning, indicators etc.) should give you a pretty good idea of what they're about to do. If it doesn't, drive defensively and slow up until you do, and don't make a manoeuvre which relies on someone else doing what you expect them to do.
This is my general approach tbh, it's a shame everyone doesn't think like this and I've avoided several accidents by doing so (including today's shenanigans)
Original post by XMaramena
I see - most of them round where I live are 4 exits.
Really!? Sounds like things could get a bit messy if two opposing drivers both wanted to turn right
Original post by WoodyMKC
Really!? Sounds like things could get a bit messy if two opposing drivers both wanted to turn right
lol it's a bit confusing sometimes - if you're first there, you go and the other guy waits. If you're both there at the same time, you both go at the same time and pass each other on your right hand sides like some sort of barn dance.
Original post by XMaramena
lol it's a bit confusing sometimes - if you're first there, you go and the other guy waits. If you're both there at the same time, you both go at the same time and pass each other on your right hand sides like some sort of barn dance.
Pretty much the old offside-offside approach then
Yeah I imagine a bit of eye contact is crucial Original post by WoodyMKC
Pretty much the old offside-offside approach then Yeah I imagine a bit of eye contact is crucial
Yeah I imagine a bit of eye contact is crucial a hummer comes in handy too
Officially, a mini roundabout is the same a regular one, just smaller. You should avoid doing a u-turn on one as obviously the limited space makes things awkward, but it is not technically verboten. If someone is already on the mini-roundabout and doing a u-turn, you shouldn't enter - just let them get on with it.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by WoodyMKC
I've been looking to my right approaching a roundabout, seen that it's clear, then as usual checked my front again just before entering the roundabout - only to have to whack the brakes on because some idiot from the exit across, who should be giving way to me as he's on my left, is making a U turn and cutting directly across my path. Granted, I had yet to reach the roundabout .................................
You are mis-understanding the roundabout rules. As soon as the other car enters the roundabout he is approaching from your right. You misjudged that would happen.
Original post by WoodyMKC
Mini roundabouts are, most often, 3 exits. If I were to approach the roundabout, then the 2nd exit as I look at it would be where I'd initially be checking to see if there's any traffic to give way to - any traffic on the first exit as I look (which is directly opposite in this situation), should be looking to give way to me, as I'm coming from the exit to their right. Pretty basic situation that any qualified driver should comprehend if they were in such a situation.
So why, then, would someone see me about to enter the roundabout, and enter it themselves knowing they're about to turn into my path??? They wouldn't cut across if they were going ahead and I was turning right.
So why, then, would someone see me about to enter the roundabout, and enter it themselves knowing they're about to turn into my path??? They wouldn't cut across if they were going ahead and I was turning right.
It's a bit confusing, but it sounds like the other car is not giving way to you? However, if it arrives at the roundabout first, it doesn't have to. It is free to enter the roundabout, and you should then wait until it is clear. If it is signalling right, you wait until it's exiting the roundabout.
Original post by mphysical
As you approach a roundabout you should be studying the whole roundabout, not looking to your right. That is why you had to slam on.
You are mis-understanding the roundabout rules. As soon as the other car enters the roundabout he is approaching from your right. You misjudged that would happen.
You are mis-understanding the roundabout rules. As soon as the other car enters the roundabout he is approaching from your right. You misjudged that would happen.
I agree. Sometimes cars can be very lax about signalling on roundabouts, and that can be very dangerous if you assume a car is going straight on and it continues around in front of you.
And the number of cars that continue to signal right as they exit a roundabout
Original post by mphysical
As you approach a roundabout you should be studying the whole roundabout, not looking to your right. That is why you had to slam on.
You are mis-understanding the roundabout rules. As soon as the other car enters the roundabout he is approaching from your right. You misjudged that would happen.
You are mis-understanding the roundabout rules. As soon as the other car enters the roundabout he is approaching from your right. You misjudged that would happen.
If this is the case then U turns at minis wouldn't be actively discouraged in the Highway Code which means it is simply wrong, and the Code does not support your idea of a "I got there first!" system, which could get messy in a hurry. From what I've witnessed, most people seem to understand the "give way to the exit to your right" concept on minis and this is taught by instructors, however a select few that probably follow the some ideals as you are the ones who end up colliding with people that are a bit less observant. It's a bit like pulling out on someone and saying "You should have seen me!" when they get hit.
Original post by WoodyMKC
What are your thoughts on this?
It is, first and foremost, a roundabout, not a normal junction. As such you must give way to traffic already on it, and this could involve slowing right down on approach if traffic approaching from the other feeder roads will get there just before you.
That the Highway Code advises avoiding U-turns at mini-roundabouts is irrelevant to you; it does not actually ban them.
Of course, drivers intending to make such a turn should be travelling very slowly (as the turn is very tight) and signalling that they intend to turn right. It is definitely more convenient and safer than driving on and finding a corner to reverse into and turn round at.
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