Original post by I_Mir
If you believe that every possible thing that could happen will happen (parallel dimensions) do you believe we have free will or are our lives just inevitable outcomes being played out?
Firstly i'd say that I don't necessarily believe that every possible thing that 'could' happen will actually happen.
Secondly, I believe that we are under the illusion of being able to make a free choice
Original post by I_Mir
If you believe that every possible thing that could happen will happen (parallel dimensions) do you believe we have free will or are our lives just inevitable outcomes being played out?
In modern society, there are two main groups. One with more control than the other, and the second group is forced into doing and believing in what is said and done by the more powerful group. Usually, group A exploits group B on a number of grounds, and has to put forward some kind of a false idea of 'free will' to indoctrinate group B into believing that they can do and say as they wish. Really, there is a small array of things they can do because of the influence group A has, somewhat similar to a capsule. As a result, the mirage of free will prevents the second group from revolting or fighting the stronger group.
Original post by Tinemither
In modern society, there are two main groups. One with more control than the other, and the second group is forced into doing and believing in what is said and done by the more powerful group. Usually, group A exploits group B on a number of grounds, and has to put forward some kind of a false idea of 'free will' to indoctrinate group B into believing that they can do and say as they wish. Really, there is a small array of things they can do because of the influence group A has, somewhat similar to a capsule. As a result, the mirage of free will prevents the second group from revolting or fighting the stronger group.
If there's a possibility of group B revolting against group A, doesn't that mean that group B actually has freewill?
If you say that there is no possibility of group B revolting against group A, then there would be no need for group A to put forward an idea of freewill to throw them off guard from their true potential, considering that you suggest that the use of the illusion of freewill is to prevent group B from revolting.
Let's say that group A tricks group B into believing that they have freewill, when they actually don't, for the sake of preventing group B revolting, then it seems like group B actually maintains the ability to revolt against group A, but on the other hand group B do not in fact have the ability to revolt.
So essentially, group B actually do have freewill since there is the possibility of group B revolting, so as long as they realise that they can.
(edited 8 years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnxkfLe4G74
Of course it exists! Rush sang about it! Or wait did they...
"If you choose not too decide, you'll still have made a choice!"
Of course it exists! Rush sang about it! Or wait did they...
"If you choose not too decide, you'll still have made a choice!"
Original post by Infinite Potato
If there's a possibility of group B revolting against group A, doesn't that mean that group B actually has freewill?
If you say that there is no possibility of group B revolting against group A, then there would be no need for group A to put forward an idea of freewill to throw them off guard from their true potential, considering that you suggest that the use of the illusion of freewill is to prevent group B from revolting.
Let's say that group A tricks group B into believing that they have freewill, when they actually don't, for the sake of preventing group B revolting, then it seems like group B actually maintains the ability to revolt against group A, but on the other hand group B do not in fact have the ability to revolt.
So essentially, group B actually do have freewill since there is the possibility of group B revolting, so as long as they realise that they can.
If you say that there is no possibility of group B revolting against group A, then there would be no need for group A to put forward an idea of freewill to throw them off guard from their true potential, considering that you suggest that the use of the illusion of freewill is to prevent group B from revolting.
Let's say that group A tricks group B into believing that they have freewill, when they actually don't, for the sake of preventing group B revolting, then it seems like group B actually maintains the ability to revolt against group A, but on the other hand group B do not in fact have the ability to revolt.
So essentially, group B actually do have freewill since there is the possibility of group B revolting, so as long as they realise that they can.
Outside of our groups, people have free will, to an extent. Though in natural society, how many times have you been granted to do your own thing, without the boundaries enforced by a higher power? I doubt there have been very many opportunities. After all, there's always a teacher, parent or government in indirect control of you. The idea of free will is mythical because to have free will, you must have total freedom over what you wish to do. Inclusive of whether you could kill someone and get away with it or not. The latter inferring a lack of free will.
We have free will to an extent.
Before we delve into the question of whether it exists lets try and understand what we mean by it. Free will is supposed to be the ability, willingness and freedom to do what a person wants with their lives. Being a wee bit more intellectual it is the ability of any being endowed with reason and logic to find an alternative method of fighting expanding entropy, than that dictated by natural law.
Since nature is the place where might is right and the strongest survive while human society is where the support of the weakest is also strived for, free will should exist only among humans. Human's can build artificial light than depend only on the sun.
But can the Human though having the willingness, ability to do anything do so?
NO- first because of the constraints of the laws of science,
NO- because of the rules invented by human society itself in diverting itself from natural law. Wherein each is given certain leeway to do what he wishes save when against other fellow humans
Therefore free will exists in certain space or as mathematics would say LIMIT and even if the LIMIT seems to result in infinite the L'Hospital rule destroys it
Since nature is the place where might is right and the strongest survive while human society is where the support of the weakest is also strived for, free will should exist only among humans. Human's can build artificial light than depend only on the sun.
But can the Human though having the willingness, ability to do anything do so?
NO- first because of the constraints of the laws of science,
NO- because of the rules invented by human society itself in diverting itself from natural law. Wherein each is given certain leeway to do what he wishes save when against other fellow humans
Therefore free will exists in certain space or as mathematics would say LIMIT and even if the LIMIT seems to result in infinite the L'Hospital rule destroys it
Genetic legacy alone dictates that a sizeable chunk of who we are is not devoid of influences beyond our control, add the basic instincts of survival and reproduction we share with the rest of the living world without a choice, the constraints imposed by the environment, the inevitable experiences that shape the development of the human mind and... how much is left for us to claim autonomy over our actions? Not a lot, probably.
Is it a matter of free-will to come here and post these things or is everyone pushed into it without noticing?
Is it a matter of free-will to come here and post these things or is everyone pushed into it without noticing?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by zhog
Genetic legacy alone dictates that a sizeable chunk of who we are is not devoid of influences beyond our control, add the basic instincts of survival and reproduction we share with the rest of the living world without a choice, the constraints imposed by the environment, the inevitable experiences that shape the development of the human mind and... how much is left for us to claim autonomy over our actions? Not a lot, probably.
Is it a matter of free-will to come here and post these things or is everyone pushed into it without noticing?
Is it a matter of free-will to come here and post these things or is everyone pushed into it without noticing?
The latter.
Original post by I_Mir
If you believe that every possible thing that could happen will happen (parallel dimensions) do you believe we have free will or are our lives just inevitable outcomes being played out?
Yes it does.
Unfortunately you cant blame the universe for you being an idiot.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Tinemither
In modern society, there are two main groups. One with more control than the other, and the second group is forced into doing and believing in what is said and done by the more powerful group. Usually, group A exploits group B on a number of grounds, and has to put forward some kind of a false idea of 'free will' to indoctrinate group B into believing that they can do and say as they wish. Really, there is a small array of things they can do because of the influence group A has, somewhat similar to a capsule. As a result, the mirage of free will prevents the second group from revolting or fighting the stronger group.
Lols next you are gonna be telling me there are UFOs watching me masturbate.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Satanas
Lols next you are gonna be telling me there are UFOs watching me masturbate.
Firstly, that's unlikely. I don't believe in such fantasies and beliefs of extra-terrestrial life.
Secondly, that's disgusting and not at all funny.
Original post by Jamie S
Free will doesn't exist and that is pretty much confirmed.
How you are so confident?
We just have to ask ourselves whether it is a manifestation of free-will to come in here and post this stuff. If it is, there is such thing as free-will.
I don't think it makes sense from a naturalistic perspective to believe in free will. There's no known (nor even a reasonable suggestion of a) natural mechanic that could facilitate true freedom. The closest appears to be the compatibilist view, which essentially replaces the lay idea of free will and supplants it with the description of a will which, upon inspection, isn't actually free at all.
People have a strong feeling that they're the conscious originator of their thoughts and behaviour, but every time this is inspected in the lab, the actual domain where any freedom might be lurking is forced to recede over and over again. We know that our sense cannot be trusted because of experiments showing that a person's actions were deterministic, despite the participant belief in having freely made their own decision.
Although free will is often assumed to exist, there's presently (and likely will remain) an absence of a robust reason to believe in it.
People have a strong feeling that they're the conscious originator of their thoughts and behaviour, but every time this is inspected in the lab, the actual domain where any freedom might be lurking is forced to recede over and over again. We know that our sense cannot be trusted because of experiments showing that a person's actions were deterministic, despite the participant belief in having freely made their own decision.
Although free will is often assumed to exist, there's presently (and likely will remain) an absence of a robust reason to believe in it.
Everything happens for a reason
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