The Student Room Group

Another Australian question: Proving that e is irrational

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Original post by constellarknight
Attached.


Nice question. Is this a question you want answering btw?
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 2
Original post by constellarknight
Attached.


Original post by zetamcfc
Nice question. Is this a question you want answering btw?


I have a formal proof by contradiction
Original post by TeeEm
I have a formal proof by contradiction


So do I :wink:
Well you can have a go. The examiner's report says that there were "virtually no totally successful solutions".
Original post by constellarknight
Well you can have a go. The examiner's report says that there were "virtually no totally successful solutions".


Well I don't do the way as probably intended, but hey-ho.

Idea: All transcendental numbers are irrational. Therefore if  e\ e is transcendental then  e\ e is irrational.

Claim:  e\ e is transcendental.

Proof: Assume  e\ e is not transcendental. Then

 amem+...+a1e+a0=0\ a_me^m +...+a_1e + a_0 =0

Without the loss of generality we can assume  ajZ,j\ a_j \in \mathbb{Z}, \forall j and  a00\ a_0 \neq 0

Define  f(x)=xp1(x1)p(x2)p...(xm)p(p1)!\ f(x)=\frac{x^{p-1}(x-1)^p(x-2)^p...(x-m)^p}{(p-1)!}

Where p is an arbitrary prime.Then  f\ f is a polynomial in  x,=mp+(p1)\ x, \partial =mp + (p-1) . Put

 F(x)=f(x)+f(x)+...+f(mp+p1)(x)\ F(x)=f(x) + f^{\prime}(x) + ... + f^{(mp + p -1)}(x)

and note that  f(mp+p1)(x)=0\ f^{(mp + p -1)}(x) =0

 ddx(exF(x))=ex(F(x)F(x))=exF(x)\ \frac{d}{dx}(e^{-x}F(x)) = e^{-x}(F^{\prime}(x) - F(x)) = -e^{-x}F(x)

Hence for any  j\ j

Unparseable latex formula:

\displaystyle a_j \int_{0}^{j} e^{-x}f(x)dx = a_j [\left -e^{-x}F(x)\right]_{0}^{j}



 =ajF(0)ajejF(j)\ = a_j F(0) - a_j e^{-j}F(j)

Multiply by  ej\ e^j and sum over  j\ j to get

j=0m(ajej0jexf(x)dx)=F(0)j=0majejj=0majF(j)\displaystyle \sum_{j=0}^{m} \left( a_je^j \int_{0}^{j} e^{-x}f(x)dx \right) = F(0)\sum_{j=0}^{m} a_je^j - \sum_{j=0}^{m} a_jF(j)

=j=0mi=0mp+p1ajf(i)(j)\displaystyle = -\sum_{j=0}^{m} \sum_{i=0}^{mp+p-1} a_j f^{(i)}(j)  (Φ)\ (\Phi)

from the equation supposedly satisfied by by  e\ e

We claim that for each  f(j)(j)\ f^{(j)}(j) is an integer, and that this integer is divisible by  p\ p unless  j=0\ j=0 and  i=p1\ i=p-1 . To establish the claim we just apply Liebniz's rule; the only non-zero term arising when  j0\ j \neq 0 come from the factor  (xj)p\ (x-j)^p being differentiated exactly p times. Since  p!(p1)=p\ \frac{p!}{(p-1)}=p , all such terms are integers divisible by  p\ p . In the exceptional case  j=0\ j=0 , the frist non-zero term occurs when  i=p1\ i=p-1 , and then

 f(p1)(0)=(1)p...(m)p\ f^{(p-1)}(0)=(-1)^p...(-m)^p

The next non-zero terms are all multiples of  p\ p . The value of equation  (Φ)\ (\Phi) is therefore

 Kp+a0(1)p...(m)p\ K_p +a_0(-1)^p...(-m)^p

for some  KZ\ K \in \mathbb{Z} . If  p>max(m,a0)\ p>max(m,|a_0|) , then the integer  a0(1)p...(m)p\ a_0(-1)^p...(-m)^p is not divisible by  p\ p . So fot sufficiently large primes  p\ p the value of the equation  (Φ)\ (\Phi) is an integer not divisible by  p\ p , hence not zero.

Now estimating the integral. If  0xm\ 0 \leq x \leq m then

 f(x)mmp+p1(p1)!\ |f(x)| \leq \frac{m^{mp+p-1}}{(p-1)!}

so

j=0majej0jexf(x)dxj=0majej0jmmp+p1(p1)!dx\displaystyle \left|\sum_{j=0}^{m} a_je^j \int_{0}^{j} e^{-x}f(x)dx \right| \leq \sum_{j=0}^{m} |a_je^j| \int_{0}^{j} \frac{m^{mp+p-1}}{(p-1)!}dx

j=0majejjmmp+p1(p1)!\displaystyle \leq \sum_{j=0}^{m}|a_je^j|j\frac{m^{mp+p-1}}{(p-1)!}

which tends to zero as  p+\ p \rightarrow +\infty , thus we have a contradiction . Therefore  e\ e is transcendental which implies it is also irrational.

(In no way the method they would want for the answer but was fun LaTeXing it :lol:)
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by zetamcfc
Well I don't do the way as probably intended, but hey-ho.

Idea: All transcendental numbers are irrational. Therefore if  e\ e is transcendental then  e\ e is irrational.

Claim:  e\ e is transcendental.

Proof: Assume  e\ e is not transcendental. Then

 amem+...+a1e+a0=0\ a_me^m +...+a_1e + a_0 =0

Without the loss of generality we can assume  ajZ,j\ a_j \in \mathbb{Z}, \forall j and  a00\ a_0 \neq 0

Define  f(x)=xp1(x1)p(x2)p...(xm)p(p1)!\ f(x)=\frac{x^{p-1}(x-1)^p(x-2)^p...(x-m)^p}{(p-1)!}

Where p is an arbitrary prime.Then  f\ f is a polynomial in  x,=mp+(p1)\ x, \partial =mp + (p-1) . Put

 F(x)=f(x)+f(x)+...+f(mp+p1)(x)\ F(x)=f(x) + f^{\prime}(x) + ... + f^{(mp + p -1)}(x)

and note that  f(mp+p1)(x)=0\ f^{(mp + p -1)}(x) =0

 ddx(exF(x))=ex(F(x)F(x))=exF(x)\ \frac{d}{dx}(e^{-x}F(x)) = e^{-x}(F^{\prime}(x) - F(x)) = -e^{-x}F(x)

Hence for any  j\ j

Unparseable latex formula:

\displaystyle a_j \int_{0}^{j} e^{-x}f(x)dx = a_j [\left -e^{-x}F(x)\right]_{0}^{j}



 =ajF(0)ajejF(j)\ = a_j F(0) - a_j e^{-j}F(j)

Multiply by  ej\ e^j and sum over  j\ j to get

j=0m(ajej0jexf(x)dx)=F(0)j=0majejj=0majF(j)\displaystyle \sum_{j=0}^{m} \left( a_je^j \int_{0}^{j} e^{-x}f(x)dx \right) = F(0)\sum_{j=0}^{m} a_je^j - \sum_{j=0}^{m} a_jF(j)

=j=0mi=0mp+p1ajf(i)(j)\displaystyle = -\sum_{j=0}^{m} \sum_{i=0}^{mp+p-1} a_j f^{(i)}(j)  (Φ)\ (\Phi)

from the equation supposedly satisfied by by  e\ e

We claim that for each  f(j)(j)\ f^{(j)}(j) is an integer, and that this integer is divisible by  p\ p unless  j=0\ j=0 and  i=p1\ i=p-1 . To establish the claim we just apply Liebniz's rule; the only non-zero term arising when  j0\ j \neq 0 come from the factor  (xj)p\ (x-j)^p being differentiated exactly p times. Since  p!(p1)=p\ \frac{p!}{(p-1)}=p , all such terms are integers divisible by  p\ p . In the exceptional case  j=0\ j=0 , the frist non-zero term occurs when  i=p1\ i=p-1 , and then

 f(p1)(0)=(1)p...(m)p\ f^(p-1)(0)=(-1)^p...(-m)^p

The next non-zero terms are all multiples of  p\ p . The value of equation  (Φ)\ (\Phi) is therefore

 Kp+a0(1)p...(m)p\ K_p +a_0(-1)^p...(-m)^p

for some  KZ\ K \in \mathbb{Z} . If  p>max(m,a0)\ p>max(m,|a_0|) , then the integer  a0(1)p...(m)p\ a_0(-1)^p...(-m)^p is not divisible by  p\ p . So fot sufficiently large primes  p\ p the value of the equation  (Φ)\ (\Phi) is an integer not divisible by  p\ p , hence not zero.

Now estimating the integral. If  0xm\ 0 \leq x \leq m then

 f(x)mmp+p1(p1)!\ |f(x)| \leq \frac{m^{mp+p-1}}{(p-1)!}

so

j=0majej0jexf(x)dxj=0majej0jmmp+p1(p1)!dx\displaystyle \left|\sum_{j=0}^{m} a_je^j \int_{0}^{j} e^{-x}f(x)dx \right| \leq \sum_{j=0}^{m} |a_je^j| \int_{0}^{j} \frac{m^{mp+p-1}}{(p-1)!}dx

j=0majejjmmp+p1(p1)!\displaystyle \leq \sum_{j=0}^{m}|a_je^j|j\frac{m^{mp+p-1}}{(p-1)!}

which tends to zero as  p+\ p \rightarrow +\infty , thus we have a contradiction . Therefore  e\ e is transcendental which implies it is also irrational.

(In no way the method they would want for the answer but was fun LaTeXing it :lol:)


The intended solution: page 11 of exampaper.web.fc2.com/test/hs/y12/maths/HSC4USolutions/2001.pdf, starting at (b)(i).
Original post by constellarknight
The intended solution: page 11 of exampaper.web.fc2.com/test/hs/y12/maths/HSC4USolutions/2001.pdf, starting at (b)(i).


Yup, knew they wanted a solution linking to the question, but why be so boring? :tongue:
Reply 8
Original post by zetamcfc
Yup, knew they wanted a solution linking to the question, but why be so boring? :tongue:


Especially when they didn't say "hence" :wink: :colone:
Original post by Zacken
Especially when they didn't say "hence" :wink: :colone:


The best is the 'hence or otherwise' question, and you actually take the otherwise option :biggrin:
Reply 10
Original post by zetamcfc
The best is the 'hence or otherwise' question, and you actually take the otherwise option :biggrin:
Original post by Zacken


:cool:

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