Why don't we just grow babies in a test tube?

So you're saying men are worth less than women?

You deserve to feel insulted for being a tit.

The womans egg is used with the dudes sperm. The DNA of the mother is still needed. Just like that of the Mans. That is the essence of the whole sexual reproduction thing. That's what fish do.... The female fish lays eggs, the male fish squirts his sperm containing semen all over those eggs. It's through the giant accident of evolution that mammals combine and pass on our genes the way we do. Even more so an accident that it is so god damn painful and dangerous for humans due to brain size and other reasons. Then humans being humans have made all this mythology surrounding it all and the importance of what carry and giving birth to a child means which you and a lot of people buy into (since we are human and all and if we didn't we'd be crap parents).

Well done, through no particular effort of your own and blind luck you were born with a uterus. Do you want a medal? Or should I save the medal for the woman that find a cure for a cancer or the woman that fights against a conservative Islamic society that stops female children going to school?

It's like me being insulted if my future wife needed IVF for denying my male role of sticking my penis in her vagina.

You are also assuming only men are Drs and scientists lol, how insulting for women. Can't wait to see how you dig some more.


Also for the record I'm speaking from feminist perspective as well.

Then why bring it up? Whose to say this will be better than a natural pregnancy/ birth? If the end result is the same I fail to see your problem. So should this not also be their choice?

I disagree with your reasoning. And I disagree, we don't live in a patriarchal society. Not any more, women have the same opportunities and rights as men there is no denying that. I disagree with that as well, men are very disadvantaged when it comes to the making and rearing and custody of their own children. How is his "place" up at the top? We don't live in that society any more, we're steadily moving away from such sexist views.

And I was also posing an argument.

Why bring what up? I was sharing an insight. Just like someone might say "being Catholic, I can see some Catholics disagreeing for reasons X, Y and Z'

The the process is different, that is what the problem is. That is why people would disagree with it.

A patriarchal society still persists in many areas of society. It isn't just about men and women having the same rights, it has more to do with it than that. Patriarchy reinforces certain types of oppression that still exists in society such as homophobia, racism etc. It has a lot to do with power structures that we still live under etc etc.

We do still live in a patriarchal society whether you wish to believe that or not. That isn't just something a feminist says to be annoying. I dislike that feminism has almost made patriarchy a 'trigger word'. -_-

Patriarchy= man at the top. I wasn't being sexist, that is what patriarchy is. You surely cannot confuse such a literal sentence with sexism, oh please

No, just like I haven't said the sky isn't blue...

Aw thanks for teaching me how procreation works

Carrying and giving birth are important roles with or without "mythology" surrounding it. Women are condemned for smoking to drinking during pregnancy, if it wasn't important then nobody would care.

Don't be patronising, I didn't in anyway suggest I'm amazing because a baby can grow in my uterus(if I can or not/will, or not is left up to the future to decide). I was quite clearly giving an insight on how some feminists would perceive this.

Also, do I want a medal? no keep it, does any woman care if you award her a medal or not for what she has achieved with her time on this planet, certainly not. What you perceive as "more important", doesn't mean it is so, your own mother may wish to receive a medal for creating and giving birth to you.

"It's like me being insulted if my future wife needed IVF for denying my male role of sticking my penis in her vagina."

Err doesn't make sense...

If your wife needed (emphasis on the "needed" ) IVF, it isn't because you "denied her of your penis", it is because of your/ or her lack of fertility. Stupid argument, try again. XD

"You are also assuming only men are Drs and scientists lol, how insulting for women. Can't wait to see how you dig some more."

LOL How did I assume that? I CLEARLY was showing you how feminists would feel is MALE Dr's and Scientists were to push this forward. This was the BASIS of the whole argument "men doing it better". I didn't mention female Dr's and Scientists because it was unnecessary to do so...

Lol I'm insulting women, again do try again! XD

I meant why bring up that you didn't materialise it out of thin air. Not the argument.

I'd disagree with it being that different. They're both needed for the creation of an embyro.

I don't see how those power structures are relevant to this at all.

I disagree.

Men are not necessarily at the top, this has been changing for a long time now.

did you bother to read what I wrote previously.

Also power structures are relevant in my argument due to what you wrote about us not living in a patriarchal society, which you went on to say again, which means you didn't really read what I said.

To be fair I'm a woman and I find your arguments insulting to me in terms of my gender and what my "role" is and what my worth in society is.

We decide as individuals what we want from our lives and from ourselves and from society. And if I wanted a baby grown in a test tube instead of me then that is my decision and it does not diminish my "role" as a woman in any way shape or form, nor do my decision diminish anyone else's rights or decisions.

I am a person first and foremost not a uterus. Which your entire argument is based around the "role" of women.

I did read what you said yes. And I disagreed with every word of it.

Lol okay be insulted then, you're also the one who just called me sexist for quite literally describing what patriarchy is.

Don't be so sensitive. Haven't I said it's a choice? I can't be bothered to reply to someone who needs to improve their reading comprehension.

You disagree with patriarchy contributing to homophobia? kkkkk

I didn't call you you sexist at all. I said that the idea that mean are on top is sexist.

No need to get insulting. I at least addressed all the points you made.

You don't have to reply.

Your claims are ridiculous, obviously I need to reply, but it takes so much effort when someone decides to completely understand what you have written.

"I am a person first and foremost not a uterus" LOL
No, no, no I definitely see a uterus in your avatar.

*sigh* ....no.

I disagreed that the patriarchy is a thing any more (in the way you describe it and relate it to this issue) which I very clearly said.

Homophobia has absolutely nothing to do with this thread's topic.

It does, I cba to explain how. Patriarchy is a thing.

Homophobia is an example of why patriarchy is a thing.

*sigh* homophobia has nothing to do with this thread.

If you can't be bothered to explain how then maybe get off your high horse and stop talking to me in such a condescending manner? Don't belittle people's opinions and thoughts if you're not willing to fully explain yours.

Anyway, dinner time. Chow.

You crazy idiots.

Wouldn't it be more about "willing" if it was an actual choice? You could still do it the "old fashioned way". As it stands going through all that is not a choice if you want your own genetic offspring.

To all you saying it is some wonderful life experience why not the same attitude with childhood vaccines? Every child should be exposed to the risk of lifer altering polio. It's all part of life after all.

So when this beautiful natural life experience produces a premature birth we should just let the thing die then? Not keep it artificially alive? We already do this kind of stuff. We already keep babies alive outside the womb when they are not strong enough to survive. If you want it as natural as possible we should go back to no medicinal help and have all "natural births", to hell with the mother/child mortality rate :-/

You have a very romantic view of nature when it produces stuff like this,.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/20/microcephaly-babies-brain-defect-brazil-zika-virus

It's masochistic. I think one of the reason we have so much inbuilt aversion to what I am saying is because so much of our culture is based around finding the meaning in suffering, since so much of human existence is just that. It's what our religions are based around. It helps us deal with the pain of existence. But it also holds back progress and stops from getting rid of suffering from human existence. You see with Mother Terisia and her death hospitals where people went to die. We have medicine that can stop people dieing yet the fetishism of what was once inevitable suffering stops us from helping ourselves.

I wish they were like cats :-/

Yes, let's take one of the most natural and beautiful life experiences, suck all the humanity out of it, and turn it into just another cold, clinical, procedure.

And while we are at it, let's go full sociopath and cut down all the real trees and replace them artificial ones that will do the same job of producing oxygen as real trees, with the added bonus that they don't need pruning, won't catch diseases and will never die. Sure they might not be as aesthetically pleasing as real trees, but who cares about such trivial matters, function and efficiency is all matters in our brave new world.