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Reply 20

N-R-G

Original post by Little Toy Gun

How would you propose to change the exam system?

Reply 21

Plagioclase

Original post by Little Toy Gun

How is that not a distractor? No-one is talking about reforming the exam system, and everyone would feel like they've achieved something had the referenda gone the other way. In fact, a continued campaign to remove the requirement would only stop people from talking about reforming the exam system.So you're saying, subfusc, per se, gives you stress? That, you can be in subfusc watching TV at home and you and all those people would feel very stressed?Unless the answer to the above question is a yes, you are the proof of subfusc being a distractor to people.And it's already changed. No-one actually has to wear it. There have been people who didn't even apply and they walked into their exams without subfusc with no problem.It is not; I was merely pointing out the fallacy in your rhetic. In my view, there are no real arguments for compulsory subfusc either; but when you are asking to change something, what you need are arguments against it, especially when the vast majority of people affected favoured keeping it.The subfusc was meant to be a leveller and so everyone, no matter what background, is treated the same and only academic merits are being taken account. Subfusc also helps people to go into an exam mode and to be able to get out of the mode easily.But my argument is that dealing with subfusc only distracts us from the real issue, and it clearly has. Oxford shouldn't have final exams that count for everything without micro-summative assessments, Oxford should adopt an approach to make sure that the output assessed aligned with the input given. But hey, of course the subfusc is the thing to fight against. It's entirely like eliminating slavery by asking for a limit on how many times a master can rape his slaves every day.

The official exams regulations state: "All members of the university are required to wear academic dress with subfusc... when attending any university examination". I can't comment on people who have broken that rule but the rule exists and as far as I'm aware, it is enforced. So please don't act as if this regulation does not exist. If it wasn't a rule that people felt like they had to follow then there shouldn't even be a question about whether it should be removed or not.

And yes, it makes me uncomfortable. I'm stressed and uncomfortable enough in an exams situation without being dressed up in ridiculous, uncomfortable clothes. I'm sorry if this is incomprehensible for you but it's true, and I know it is true for others too.

I'm pretty stunned as to how you can act as if subfusc is a leveller. How?! How does me wearing casual clothes in an exam make me any less level with others? If subfusc helps people to get into exam mode and out of it easily, great - carry on wearing it. Me wearing subfusc, however, does not help anybody else get into exam mode and out of it easily. People should be able to perform at the best of their ability in an examination - enforcing a dress code does not do that.

I can only really repeat what I said before, namely that I'm not suggesting that subfusc is the single greatest contributor to exams stress. I am simply saying that it is a contributor that could be eliminated incredibly easily, simply by getting rid of that line in the examinations regulation. And pushing for reform in this area and reform in terms of moving away from linear end-of-year exams (which I agree would be a great thing to remove, even though the sciences are already better in that regard) isn't mutually exclusive. You can campaign for both, I don't see any reason why campaigning to get rid of subfusc would have to be at the detriment of changing the whole exams system. If anything it could help if it helps hammer in the concept that just because you've always done something a certain way, doesn't mean it's the best way.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 22

El Salvador

Original post by N-R-G

How would you propose to change the exam system?

To have micro-summative assessments instead of just one big final exam cramming all the years in.

To make sure that the content expected from candidates were content taught - communication between tutors and examiners.

To have a variety of assessment methods - instead of just an unseen written exam.

Basically, just like how many other universities do it.

Reply 23

El Salvador

Original post by Plagioclase

I didn't pretend that the regulation does not exist but only that anyone can be exempted from the requirement, whether you have to do it formally or not.

There was a question because the invigilators wanted to not be in subfusc. The invigilators are paid to be there and of course they would not be able to not follow it, formally or not.

Original post by Plagioclase

And yes, it makes me uncomfortable. I'm stressed and uncomfortable enough in an exams situation without being dressed up in ridiculous, uncomfortable clothes. I'm sorry if this is incomprehensible for you but it's true, and I know it is true for others too.

That wasn't my question.

My question was do you feel stressed just by virtue of wearing subfusc, ever if you are just sitting on your bed watching TV?

If you continue to avoid the question, I will not respond - every time you do this, it's just further evidence that subfusc has distracted people from making exams less stressful.

Original post by Plagioclase

I'm pretty stunned as to how you can act as if subfusc is a leveller. How?! How does me wearing casual clothes in an exam make me any less level with others? If subfusc helps people to get into exam mode and out of it easily, great - carry on wearing it. Me wearing subfusc, however, does not help anybody else get into exam mode and out of it easily. People should be able to perform at the best of their ability in an examination - enforcing a dress code does not do that.

I'm not sure whether you are having trouble comprehending what I said. I explicitly stated that my argument was that it's a distractor to the real issue.

But if you want a response from me on other people's arguments:
1. Different people wearing different things allow richer students to wear more expensive and fancier clothing just like what could happen in a secondary school; additionally, subjecting everyone to the same requirement is to say that the University treats everyone the same regardless of background, and will judge them only based on academic merits.
2. The subfusc does not work when only a minority of people are wearing it.

The existence of individual differences is not a valid argument against the requirement because the requirement can be, and have been waived for people who wanted it to be waived.

There are people who cannot perform well in an exam hall. There are people who don't work well with pen and paper. There are people who don't work best sitting on a chair. There are people with learning disabilities and cannot read and/or write properly. There are people with physical disabilities who cannot sit or write.

Your issue with subfusc can be and is resolved along all of these individual differences issues. Why should your issue with subfusc takes priority over people's issue with having exams in a big hall? They are at the moment treated in the same way (except it's easier to just not wear your subfusc because you may not be stopped for that).

The argument from your side on this is that people should not have to apply - but people have to apply if they need bigger exam papers, or bigger words, or a computer/typewriter etc to cater to their needs, so why shouldn't you? I should think someone who literally is unable to write with a pen would have more trouble doing the normal exam than you would.

Original post by Plagioclase

I can only really repeat what I said before, namely that I'm not suggesting that subfusc is the single greatest contributor to exams stress. I am simply saying that it is a contributor that could be eliminated incredibly easily, simply by getting rid of that line in the examinations regulation. And pushing for reform in this area and reform in terms of moving away from linear end-of-year exams (which I agree would be a great thing to remove, even though the sciences are already better in that regard) isn't mutually exclusive. You can campaign for both, I don't see any reason why campaigning to get rid of subfusc would have to be at the detriment of changing the whole exams system. If anything it could help if it helps hammer in the concept that just because you've always done something a certain way, doesn't mean it's the best way.

You can campaign for both. But has anyone? Has anyone even started to talk about it seriously? People, naturally, have a short attention span and they cannot, in reality, focus on different campaigns at the same time when they are not organizing them.

What the whole campaign has accomplished, and I trust that you cannot deny, is for everyone to talk about subfusc and only subfusc. They talked about stress, they talked about disabilities, they talked about reforms. But only about the subfusc and nothing else. It is, and has clearly proven itself to be, a massive distractor.

One thing the government often does when it wants a bill to pass is to add outrageous clauses so when they change it back to what they wanted it to be like all along, it could seem like they have made a concession already. The discussion on subfusc is the opposite of that - so what if after another 50 years, the requirement will finally be gone? It'd take another century before people would go after the real issue at the rate.

And the worst thing is, it doesn't even help. To people like you, you could've applied to not wear the subfusc. Easy. What they needed to do is just to advertise that, or perhaps make it easier for people to apply for it (get the Senior Tutor to email everyone on this, for example). To most people (which actually still include you), exams are still going to be incredibly stressful because of the way Oxford approaches them.

But hey, keep going after meaningless things because we can't expect real changes to happen, huh?