Oxbridge anti-competitive?

I agree that it does seem unfair, but I guess that it is up to Oxford and Cambridge. If they want that system, then I do think it would be difficult to enforce change on them. I think I remember threads about this before, where someone made the valid point that if UCAS tried to ban this, then Oxbridge could just withdraw from UCAS and people would have to make a separate application.

Apologies if this one has been done before.

You cannot apply to Oxford and Cambridge in the same year. Isn't this anti-competitive? Although Oxford and Cambridge are recognised by most to be the best universities in the UK why should they get special treatment?

Oxford (and presumably Cambridge) both say that they have too many good candidates for the number of places they offer. So why institutionalise a two-tier system where everyone who does not get into Oxbridge is considered second-rate?

If they are so good why can't they work under the same rules as everyone else?

For example, did you know their grads can "upgrade" their undergrad degree title from BA to MA after a few years, upon payment of a small fee?

You MIGHT argue their degrees are much harder than the rest that they ought to be awarded a "masters" but since every other uni only award a BA, that would mean every other unis of the same standard. Does that make sense?

People misunderstand this.

The MA is nothing to do with additional academic achievement and doesn't represent itself to be. The MA recognises voting and dining rights within the university.

I don't think you can complain on the basis that other MAs are awarded on the basis of completion of an extra course, because the Oxbridge MA (I assume) predates them.

I have not misunderstood. I'm merely pointing out some MIGHT.

There definately would be no misunderstanding if this "upgrade / change of title / call it what you want" was not available.

I have seen many candidates merely put MA after their name, which when I questioned them about their undegraduat subject, stated actually it was the Oxbridge MA, so in reality they were lying on their CV, as it should have been MA (oxon / cantab).

Apologies if this one has been done before.

You cannot apply to Oxford and Cambridge in the same year. Isn't this anti-competitive? Although Oxford and Cambridge are recognised by most to be the best universities in the UK why should they get special treatment?

Oxford (and presumably Cambridge) both say that they have too many good candidates for the number of places they offer. So why institutionalise a two-tier system where everyone who does not get into Oxbridge is considered second-rate?

If they are so good why can't they work under the same rules as everyone else?

I have not misunderstood. I'm merely pointing out some MIGHT.

There definately would be no misunderstanding if this "upgrade / change of title / call it what you want" was not available.

I have seen many candidates merely put MA after their name, which when I questioned them about their undegraduat subject, stated actually it was the Oxbridge MA, so in reality they were lying on their CV, as it should have been MA (oxon / cantab).

If everyone could apply to both, pretty much everyone would. Pretty much everyone with an offer from one would get one from both, but they would only be able to firm one. This would mean they would either not give enough offers, and not take in the maximum number of students, or give too many, and force some students to sleep on the streets or something.

I don't think that's true. For example STEP in absolute terms is harder than MAT but also relatively, so those who make the grade in MAT won't necessarily make the grade in STEP.

In the US, you can apply to as many unis as you like, including HYSPM, so they seem to be able to cope somehow.

Regardless, for engineering, you could argue Imperial and Cambridge ar similar in standards, likewise LSE and Cambridge for Econmics and COWI for math, so by that argument, you shouldn't be able to apply to both Imperial and Cambridg for engineering, LSE and Cambrudg for economics and you shouldn't be able to apply to more than one out of COWI for math.

I don't think that's true. For example STEP in absolute terms is harder than MAT but also relatively, so those who make the grade in MAT won't necessarily make the grade in STEP.

In the US, you can apply to as many unis as you like, including HYSPM, so they seem to be able to cope somehow.

Regardless, for engineering, you could argue Imperial and Cambridge ar similar in standards, likewise LSE and Cambridge for Econmics and COWI for math, so by that argument, you shouldn't be able to apply to both Imperial and Cambridg for engineering, LSE and Cambrudg for economics and you shouldn't be able to apply to more than one out of COWI for math.

I don't think that's true. For example STEP in absolute terms is harder than MAT but also relatively, so those who make the grade in MAT won't necessarily make the grade in STEP.

In the US, you can apply to as many unis as you like, including HYSPM, so they seem to be able to cope somehow.

Regardless, for engineering, you could argue Imperial and Cambridge ar similar in standards, likewise LSE and Cambridge for Econmics and COWI for math, so by that argument, you shouldn't be able to apply to both Imperial and Cambridg for engineering, LSE and Cambrudg for economics and you shouldn't be able to apply to more than one out of COWI for math.

Take up the organ. Then you can apply to both.

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Not really. You're perfectly entitled to use the post-nominals MA with an Oxbridge MA. Most people would want to use Oxon/Cantab anyway.

If other people misunderstand that's their problem. Other people's misunderstanding doesn't oblige the universities to change their system.

You could argue that, but you'd be wrong. Virtually everyone with an offer from both Cambridge and Imperial (for instance) will choose Cambridge. People who would choose Imperial generally don't apply to Cambridge in the first place. You can see this in the statistics - Cambridge give out pretty much 1 offer per place, at Imperial it is much higher, reflecting the large numbers of people who do choose Imperial over Cambridge.

Part of the difference between US colleges and Oxbridge is that Oxbridge put lots of effort into interviewing applicants to make sure they pick the right ones. A less diligent approach to admissions might let them deal with twice the number of applications, but it would clearly have major disadvantages.

But STEP is taken after you've learnt a LOT more maths, the MAT is just on C1C2 and is really a test of mathematical maturity. I would predict that the interviews at Oxford play a much bigger part (for maths this is) compared to Cambridge.

I wouldn't really care if Oxbridge scrapped the MA thing, but I don't really see how that's lying. It would look a bit ridiculous to have to put (Cantab.) if you just wanted to list your qualifications post-nominally.