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Is it time to stop student finance being based on parental income

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No.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by 0123456543210
No, ridiculous is the fact that one's financial support is restricted merely on the basis of what their parents earn and not what they personally get, this doesn't take into account number of people in the household, nor the fact that some parents might simply refuse to provide their children with support during university.

I would say, determine the level of financial support based on the academic merit i.e. A-level results, rank of the university, course etc. There is no way a person doing a degree in sports science at an ex-polytechnic should receive the same amount of support as someone else who does an engineering degree at a top 10 university.


Let's be realistic. If it was based on what we personally get, everyone would be getting the maximum. There's not enough money for that.
If your parents refuse to support you during uni then you should have saved up during the summer and get a part time job during uni. I don't understand why a parent would not help their child but most uni students are technically adults so your parents are not obligated to give you anything, this discussion would probably have been had with your parents beforehand, yet you still cart yourself off to uni in September. If you know you can't afford it and your support from SF isn't enough, why are you in a rush to go to uni? I have no sympathy for those kind of people.

I don't agree with your second point at all. You could have a 1st class honours from Oxbridge and still be unemployed. All degrees from any uni can land you in a good job. Your degree/uni will not speak for itself. You have to sell yourself, you have to gain experience and you have to show that you are worthy of the job.

There is already support available for A level achievements.
Original post by intelligent con
There is currently a petition calling for student finance to not be based on parental income. I completely agree, why should the government care what income my parents make, why should the chavvy UKIP types studying PE get more money than me because of what their parents earn? Education is a right for everyone FACT so I should not be excluded due to low maintenance loans. I can't wait for 2020 so I can vote for Jeremy Corbyn who will give me free education and abolish these discriminatory loans. Do you guys agree everyone should be entitled to the same amount?


What are you studying, OP?

Original post by Dinasaurus
Why don't the poorer kids get a job as well?


People from poorer backgrounds are already disadvantaged enough. There's no reason to take away maintenance loans from them.

Original post by Dinasaurus
Most lower income parents seem to already own a house.


I wouldn't expect that to be the case. Where did you hear that?
(edited 8 years ago)
I think it should be based on income but also take into account the number of people that the income in question is supporting.

£30k and an only child or 43k and 3 kids, who needs it more then?
Original post by BekahMay
I think that it should be based on disposable income, if someones parents earn double mine but they have a bigger house and twice the children it isnt fair that i get more.


Those parents have made the choice themselves to get the bigger house and have twice as many children.

I could be on £100k but get that down to £5,000 of disposable income each year because I spend so much money on cars and fancy suits. Should I get money from the Govt because I make poor financial decisions?
Ideally yes, it is not fair to expect parents to support children over 18. And for those saying people with rich parents should just get a job:
1. Why should only kids with rich parents have to get a job?
2. Jobs don't grow on trees. You can't be sure to find part-time jobs where you study.
3. Can we stop pretending it is possible to work 20+ hours a week while doing a full time degree and not have your degree suffer? It really isn't.
That said, I don't think it will ever happen because it would need more money which we don't have.
Original post by StrangeBanana
Those parents have made the choice themselves to get the bigger house and have twice as many children.

I could be on £100k but get that down to £5,000 of disposable income each year because I spend so much money on cars and fancy suits. Should I get money from the Govt because I make poor financial decisions?

I mean disposable as in whats left after the necessities which would avoid people just spending stupidly
And i think that parents are entitled to have as many children they want so long as they can still provide a decent quality of life, they shouldnt be penalised for having wanted more children when it comes to the rediculous costs involved in university
Original post by izpenguin
Ideally yes, it is not fair to expect parents to support children over 18. And for those saying people with rich parents should just get a job:
1. Why should only kids with rich parents have to get a job?
2. Jobs don't grow on trees. You can't be sure to find part-time jobs where you study.
3. Can we stop pretending it is possible to work 20+ hours a week while doing a full time degree and not have your degree suffer? It really isn't.
That said, I don't think it will ever happen because it would need more money which we don't have.


1. They shouldn't have to get a job. Their parents should be helping them. Instead of blaming the government, you should ask your rich parents why they're allowing you to starve.
2. Sure you can. Apply early to avoid disappointment.
3. Nobody said anything about 20+ hours a week.
4. If you can't afford it, why are you going?
It's insane

What about those that are estranged from their parents?

What about those that have parents they are on good terms with but who retired long ago and who have enormous personal capital?
Original post by a noble chance
It's insane

What about those that are estranged from their parents?

Apply for SF as an independent student.

What about those that have parents they are on good terms with but who retired long ago and who have enormous personal capital?

In this case, I would apply for SF possibly without declaring parental income and then my parents can help me out since they have 'enormous personal capital'. If they refuse, get a job.
Original post by BekahMay
I mean disposable as in whats left after the necessities which would avoid people just spending stupidly
And i think that parents are entitled to have as many children they want so long as they can still provide a decent quality of life, they shouldnt be penalised for having wanted more children when it comes to the rediculous costs involved in university


Of course they're entitled to, but they're responsible for providing for those kids. And in what way are university costs ridiculous?
Original post by cherryred90s
Apply for SF as an independent student.


In this case, I would apply for SF possibly without declaring parental income and then my parents can help me out since they have 'enormous personal capital'. If they refuse, get a job.


Your first suggestion is sensible

Your second is not. How much of the money that might be lent more sensibly is frittered away to students that will not repay the loans because it is assumed that their financial leeway is determined by their parents' income?
In an ideal world, I would love for the loans not to be based on parental income. However as it stands where do we get the money from to pay for everyone to have the highest loan? Would you suggest lowering what the poorest in society get in terms of their loans in order to pay for the children of richer parents to get a higher loan? That would leave a lot of poor people not being able to afford to go to uni.
Reply 53
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Original post by cherryred90s
1. They shouldn't have to get a job. Their parents should be helping them. Instead of blaming the government, you should ask your rich parents why they're allowing you to starve.

2. Sure you can. Apply early to avoid disappointment.

4. If you can't afford it, why are you going?


Original post by cherryred90s

If your parents refuse to support you during uni then you should have saved up during the summer and get a part time job during uni.

If you know you can't afford it and your support from SF isn't enough, why are you in a rush to go to uni? I have no sympathy for those kind of people.




Posted from TSR Mobile

1.Not all situations are as simple as I'll just get a summer job and that will sustain my well being for the next "x" amount of years.

2. Just because you apply somewhere early does not mean that you will be guaranteed the position. If that were the case there would be a lot less people on job seekers.

3. Why should I not be going to university the same time as my peers because I can't afford it yet "poor people" should be allowed to go because they can't afford it??

4. Some people's parents who have higher incomes have more responsibility than those of less. Maybe a household with 3 children 1 year apart from each other (meaning at one point they will all be in uni at once) earns 43k but a household with a single child earns 35k. Is the person from the 35k household entitled to more because their parents earn less?

5. Why must I have to work my ass off to get the same education as someone else who doesn't have to lift a finger just because of their parents lack of wealth? Why can they also not "just get a summer job" and pay off their uni fees. And if they can't afford it by their own accord why are they "in a rush to go to uni this September."
Original post by noted
Posted from TSR Mobile

1.Not all situations are as simple as I'll just get a summer job and that will sustain my well being for the next "x" amount of years

If you have a summer job, it'll likely be temporary over the course of a couple of months, so you needn't worry about it sustaining your well being for 'x' amount of years.
2. Just because you apply somewhere early does not mean that you will be guaranteed the position. If that were the case there would be a lot less people on job seekers.

If you are not guaranteed the position, why are you still going?! Would you move to another city before you've been guaranteed a job? Would you sign a contract for a place to live when you know that you can't afford it?

3. Why should I not be going to university the same time as my peers because I can't afford it yet "poor people" should be allowed to go because they can't afford it??

Poor people don't have their parents to rely on. Richer people do. Their parents are supposed to help. If they refuse to help, you get a job or you commute from home. You don't continue to move out for uni and then cry because you don't have money. That's foolish.

4. Some people's parents who have higher incomes have more responsibility than those of less. Maybe a household with 3 children 1 year apart from each other (meaning at one point they will all be in uni at once) earns 43k but a household with a single child earns 35k. Is the person from the 35k household entitled to more because their parents earn less?
According to SF, yes! You already know that. You are already aware of your entitlement before going to university. You already know if you will struggle. If you still decide to go without making any changes, that's your own fault.

5. Why must I have to work my ass off to get the same education as someone else who doesn't have to lift a finger just because of their parents lack of wealth? Why can they also not "just get a summer job" and pay off their uni fees. And if they can't afford it by their own accord why are they "in a rush to go to uni this September."

I think that everyone should get a summer job actually, because sometimes student loans take a while to come through, not to mention paying for those essentials you'll need when you first move into student accom.
To the second bit, the thing is, they can afford it. They are aware of their entitlement and can afford to pay accomodation fees. It's not our fault that your parents aren't helping you for whatever reason.
Original post by StrangeBanana
Those parents have made the choice themselves to get the bigger house and have twice as many children.

I could be on £100k but get that down to £5,000 of disposable income each year because I spend so much money on cars and fancy suits. Should I get money from the Govt because I make poor financial decisions?


Why do you only make excuses for rich people vs poor? Why not lower middle class vs poor?

What if it's the working class one with less disposable income because of silly spending?


Posted from TSR Mobile
No. Regardless of those who may not pity EU citizens, I am German/American (who's parents are divorced) who has lived in the UK since I was 12. I get the right of maintenance loan due to the time I have been here. However, I am estranged from my father (not in terms of SFE) so therefore I cannot claim estrangement and my mother is American so shouldn't be included due to the charges the bank has to transfer dollars into pounds every month to support me. I have (for SFE terms) only been working 34 months not 36, so therefore, must still put my mother's income in. She has only earned in the hundreds that tax income year. However her savings for retirement will end up giving me the minimum allowance. I haven't even stared my undergrad, but have been firm in wanting to take a phd for several years and am still fighting for it. - This is not ok. My independence from 16 (now 20) should be enough to not have this happen. Not all cases are like mine, but I highly sympathize.
Original post by intelligent con
There is currently a petition calling for student finance to not be based on parental income. I completely agree, why should the government care what income my parents make, why should the chavvy UKIP types studying PE get more money than me because of what their parents earn? Education is a right for everyone FACT so I should not be excluded due to low maintenance loans. I can't wait for 2020 so I can vote for Jeremy Corbyn who will give me free education and abolish these discriminatory loans. Do you guys agree everyone should be entitled to the same amount?


Of course it's right to stop parents income being taken into account for student finance.

We don't know the parents situation, if they will contribute etc

Loans should simply have an up to value and you can have anything you want up to that amount.

You're supposed to be an adult at 18 so treat them like one


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Dinasaurus
Why do you only make excuses for rich people vs poor? Why not lower middle class vs poor?

What if it's the working class one with less disposable income because of silly spending?


I'm not making excuses for anybody. The fact is there is a limited amount of money available for student loans, and poor kids need it more than anyone else, so they're going to get it. If your parents aren't reasonable enough to support you through university when they have the means to do so, that's bad luck.

To be honest, I really don't care for people from middle-class families complaining that their parents are having to make sacrifices to put them through uni. Life is hard. There are plenty of people in this country who have it considerably worse off than you through no fault of their own.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by StrangeBanana
I'm not making excuses for anybody. The fact is there is a limited amount of money available for student loans, and poor kids need it more than anyone else, so they're going to get it. If your parents aren't reasonable enough to support you through university when they have the means to do so, that's bad luck.

To be honest, I really don't care for people from middle-class families complaining that their parents are having to make sacrifices to put them through uni. Life is hard. There are plenty of people in this country who have it considerably worse off than you through no fault of their own.

Yeah but don't act like the only difference is bad luck, especially considering most of these families had an advantage being born here.

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