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Original post by Scruffyjoe
It isn't something to be proud of when some Chinese universities are ranked above Manchester and you cannot help but think of how much money you could have saved by not going to Manchester and going for the Chinese ones instead.



Are you suggesting that Chinese universities aren't good? Why wouldn't they be among the best in the world, just because it's in China? China has invested heavily in higher education to have a more educated population, which consequently means that the universities are improving due to the money being spent on education, which then again attracts brilliant professors etc.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to understand your point of view.
Original post by frognation22
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Thanks for your reply :smile:. And Apology for a couple of misunderstandings and several wrong assumptions, especially about your profile.

And I don't find you are particularly arrogant. You just spent more time for study than other students, so you deserve to aim higher than others.


Original post by frognation22

I thought this was a wonderful programme, but then again, I attended Open Day and started researching more about it and realised that sure there is more flexibility degree-wise, but again, I am so incredibly limited in module selections as compared to the USA.


Understood. That's reasonable. I'm sorry again that I misunderstood like you didn't apply such courses and was just too judgemental.

Original post by frognation22

Not to mention, factoring in there's only around 80 hours worth of lectures/seminars in a term compared to approx 225 hours in the United States.


About assessing universities based on teaching time, I personally don't agree with you. To be honest I prefer shorter teaching time to have more free time to explore subjects at a library, and then tackle with unexpectedly challenging questions beyond textbooks in final exams (sometimes even a hot topic discussed in this field currently making some students literally cry during exam hours).

But not as complete freedom as European continental universities like French and German, which confuse students very often where to head and what to study (and no tutoring hours there). British universities in general are situated in a middle between European and American university system, and I feel comfortable with this balance (If I need some help, they will do to me at the right time, if I don't need they will minimise to disturb me and let me go).

I also prefer British marking system, that doesn't cap to be Einstein answers. Even Einstein answers won't get 100 out of 100 at top universities. The average GPA becoming easily something like 3.8/4.0 is theoretically odd for me, because there are so many unsolved and tough academic problems causing headache among scholars everyday, and most of the students there got nearly perfect answer to their subjects making world researchers and leaders cry to hear? Mmm... not sure if such universities can really exist on our planet....

Above all are just my preference. Other people like you may feel opposite. Like I said, all systems have pros and cons, and after all a matter of preference.

But if you rate British (or any other countries' higher education) underneath American HE, I want to oppose and say you are ignorant. If you doubt about what I say, then you can collect past exam papers from Oxbridge, or other equivalent top universities from other countries, and compare those to exam papers at Chicago. Or ask your brother to answer those questions. I'm more than sure that disappointingly you won't find a lot of difference. That's what I meant "the quality of education". Whatever the pathway is, as long as requiring the same graduation standards, those universities are qualified to be equally respected.

Original post by frognation22

With that said, lets say I got into Warwick and UC Santa Barbara. I would, as a matter of fact, still choose the latter.
If it was UC Santa Barbara or UCL? Honestly, I still find myself leaning to this top 30-40 school over UCL. So as mentioned before, when it really boils down to choosing, prestige isn't necessarily a factor I really consider (Even though my posts might have come across this way)


Sorry that I confused you, but. I'm not talking about prestige as you may notice. And I feel that's a bit too disrespectful to Warwick if you compare it to UCSB. I believe I saw enough number of graduates from both British and American universities. So I can certainly say Warwick graduates are more impressive than UCSB or similar US public school graduates. In theoretical subjects especially, graduates from British universities are relatively well-trained from my point of view, whereas US state school graduates look they aren't prepared enough in general. Although I must admit that students from US top school graduates are impressive and I was amused by the way how they were quick learners and hard workers. So I won't compare Warwick to HYPSM etc. But between Warwick and UCSB... I think I will bet all the money to the victory of Warwick students in terms of knowledge of their subjects, problem-solving and logical-thinking skills, if I randomly pick up 20 graduates from both universities and compare with each other. I'll be rich then. :biggrin:

But please don't think I'm anti-US public universities. There are several US public universities I absolutely like (in fact, I would definitely choose UCB over some Ivies.). However most likely, I think you won't enjoy the public uni environment if you attend. If I consider your personality and the way of expectation to HE. And that's no problem. Everyone should attend a university where s/he feels happiest and comfortable most. :smile:

Sorry for my long reply. I think I explained enough. :smile:
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Scruffyjoe
It isn't something to be proud of when some Chinese universities are ranked above Manchester and you cannot help but think of how much money you could have saved by not going to Manchester and going for the Chinese ones instead.


Lol, let's all learn Chinese and go study in China because some are ranked above our uni.. Much logic.

Getting into Tsinghua or Peking is no joke, they're like the Oxbridge of China.

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(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Princepieman
Lol, let's all learn Chinese and go study in China because some are ranked above our uni.. Much logic.

Getting into Tsinghua or Peking is no joke, they're like the Oxbridge of China.

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Oxbridge which covers 1 billion of some of the hardest working people in the world, many of whom are trying to fight themselves out of poverty through education. Manchester should be hanging its head in shame for being behind these ex-polys.

TSR ...
Original post by Scruffyjoe
It isn't something to be proud of when some Chinese universities are ranked above Manchester and you cannot help but think of how much money you could have saved by not going to Manchester and going for the Chinese ones instead.


Besides the language requirement, of learning Mandarin, it's also about £16,000 a year for a course. Reckon Student Finance England will cover that for me, bud?
Original post by cazzem
Are you suggesting that Chinese universities aren't good? Why wouldn't they be among the best in the world, just because it's in China? China has invested heavily in higher education to have a more educated population, which consequently means that the universities are improving due to the money being spent on education, which then again attracts brilliant professors etc.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to understand your point of view.


I suppose I could have been much clearer about what I was tying to say. I'm sure Chinese universities are great. I simply meant that it would have been cheaper for me to go to a Chinese university had I known that it was ranked higher than my university. And before everyone takes their calculators out and run after me with the digits let me clarify. China offers almost 100percent scholarships for people from my country. One of my friends is doing postgrad at Tshingua and she has received 110% financial aid (yes 110%!)
So I do feel that I could have saved my parents some money by going to a Chinese uni which also ranks batter than Manchester.
Original post by Scruffyjoe
You're right. I guess but the universities have comparable reputation. SOAS maybe edges slightly above Manchester I think. But it's the teaching quality that really disappointed me at Manchester and having heard from people at soas and having had a look at their law faculty qualifications I cannot help but feel a sense of regret about not choosing the latter. That's all!

Are you referring to manchesters international development course or soas?


Both to be honest, Manchester would probably be the next alternative you consider in the field again.

Once you come out of that and go for general jobs as opposed to academia , SOAS, Manchester and Sussex don't have much going for them vs Oxbridge/LSE. Although PhDs from any of above gives you a fair chance to go be an academic.

The American ivy students are quite good - Brown, Penn, UChicago/Yale. However, I definitely wouldn't say better, marks thus far would corroborate this, but I'm not a fan of seeing education as marks/exams.

As for the ones who made it on from public American universities/less well known. My own personal thoughts are some are pretty poor in terms of natural intelligence. Whether they can write a good essay, no idea. However, in everyday chats and conceptual understanding, piss poor.

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(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Nameless Ghoul
Besides the language requirement, of learning Mandarin, it's also about £16,000 a year for a course. Reckon Student Finance England will cover that for me, bud?


I don't know about England, bud but I know the Chinese government would have covered that for people from my country,
Original post by Scruffyjoe
I suppose I could have been much clearer about what I was tying to say. I'm sure Chinese universities are great. I simply meant that it would have been cheaper for me to go to a Chinese university had I known that it was ranked higher than my university. And before everyone takes their calculators out and run after me with the digits let me clarify. China offers almost 100percent scholarships for people from my country. One of my friends is doing postgrad at Tshingua and she has received 110% financial aid (yes 110%!)
So I do feel that I could have saved my parents some money by going to a Chinese uni which also ranks batter than Manchester.


Lol, you say this like it's easy to get into a top Chinese uni.

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Original post by Princepieman
Lol, let's all learn Chinese and go study in China because some are ranked above our uni.. Much logic.

Getting into Tsinghua or Peking is no joke, they're like the Oxbridge of China.

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Why isn't that good logic? If they are as good as you say they then why wouldn't one want to learn Chinese to get accepted on to a program at Peking etc?? It's not much different for me who had to learn English to study in England. I guess people here need to open their eyes and minds a bit and consider other cultures.
Original post by Newcastle456
Both to be honest, Manchester would probably be the next alternative you consider in the field again.

Once you come out of that and go for general jobs as opposed to academia , SOAS, Manchester and Sussex don't have much going for them vs Oxbridge/LSE. Although PhDs from any of above gives you a fair chance to go be an academic.

The American ivy students are quite good - Brown, Penn, UChicago/Yale. However, I definitely wouldn't say better, marks thus far would corroborate this, but I'm not a fan of seeing education as marks/exams.

As for the ones who made it on from public American universities/less well known. My own personal thoughts are some are pretty poor in terms of natural intelligence. Whether they can write a good essay, no idea. However, in everyday chats and conceptual understanding, piss poor.

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Did you do your undergrad at Warwick? Thats amazinggg!!
Original post by Scruffyjoe
I suppose I could have been much clearer about what I was tying to say. I'm sure Chinese universities are great. I simply meant that it would have been cheaper for me to go to a Chinese university had I known that it was ranked higher than my university. And before everyone takes their calculators out and run after me with the digits let me clarify. China offers almost 100percent scholarships for people from my country. One of my friends is doing postgrad at Tshingua and she has received 110% financial aid (yes 110%!)
So I do feel that I could have saved my parents some money by going to a Chinese uni which also ranks batter than Manchester.


Fudan, Peking, all good institutes.

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Original post by Scruffyjoe
Did you do your undergrad at Warwick? Thats amazinggg!!


Would you say that had I gone to SoAs it wouldn't have been much different than going to Manchester (I.e. Teaching quality, reputation, job prospects?)
Overrated- Oxbridge, St Andrews, UCL,Exeter and Bristol

Underrated- Sussex, Southampton, Nottingham,Warwick and UEA.
Original post by Scruffyjoe
Would you say that had I gone to SoAs it wouldn't have been much different than going to Manchester (I.e. Teaching quality, reputation, job prospects?)


Genuinely yes. For postgraduate study, if you do well at either I. E. First, can have a fair chance at Oxbridge master's.

My own personal experience is outside the big 6: Oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick and Imperial, there is no notable difference on graduate labour market. This can be further segmented where Oxbridge and to some extent LSE does open doors that the other universities don't, there are many boutiques that recruit about 70% from Oxbridge.

I think experience, subject you study, etc actually matter far more outside the above universities.

E.g. Durham Econ, Nottingham Econ, SOAS Law etc. Bristol Maths, these subjects will always be competitive in labour market.


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Original post by Newcastle456
Genuinely yes. For postgraduate study, if you do well at either I. E. First, can have a fair chance at Oxbridge master's.

My own personal experience is outside the big 6: Oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick and Imperial, there is no notable difference on graduate labour market. This can be further segmented where Oxbridge and to some extent LSE does open doors that the other universities don't, there are many boutiques that recruit about 70% from Oxbridge.

I think experience, subject you study, etc actually matter far more outside the above universities.

E.g. Durham Econ, Nottingham Econ, SOAS Law etc. Bristol Maths, these subjects will always be competitive in labour market.


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Thank you for explaining that. I guess what's done is done. I obviously cannot undo my undergrad now. You mention that soas law is competitive. I guess that's what I was talking about Initially as well that I wish I had done law from soas instead of Manchester. It fares well.
Overrated: UCL

Underrated: Essex, Birkbeck.
Original post by Scruffyjoe
Thank you for explaining that. I guess what's done is done. I obviously cannot undo my undergrad now. You mention that soas law is competitive. I guess that's what I was talking about Initially as well that I wish I had done law from soas instead of Manchester. It fares well.


A Manchester law degree is as good. There are hundreds of law firms in the UK, if you have a LLB, you have massive advantage.

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Original post by Scruffyjoe
Thank you for explaining that. I guess what's done is done. I obviously cannot undo my undergrad now. You mention that soas law is competitive. I guess that's what I was talking about Initially as well that I wish I had done law from soas instead of Manchester. It fares well.


League tables are always biased towards the west.

Lookng at facts such as this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9275114/GCSEs-and-A-levels-two-grades-easier-than-Far-East-exams.html

the standards in the unis in the east must be of a higher standard but because the UK media constantly focuses on the UK and US unis, you don't get a balanced view.
Original post by Newcastle456
Genuinely yes. For postgraduate study, if you do well at either I. E. First, can have a fair chance at Oxbridge master's.

My own personal experience is outside the big 6: Oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick and Imperial, there is no notable difference on graduate labour market. This can be further segmented where Oxbridge and to some extent LSE does open doors that the other universities don't, there are many boutiques that recruit about 70% from Oxbridge.

I think experience, subject you study, etc actually matter far more outside the above universities.

E.g. Durham Econ, Nottingham Econ, SOAS Law etc. Bristol Maths, these subjects will always be competitive in labour market.


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The fact that people always refer to the IB market as representative of the whole graduate market baffles me.

Warwick, and possibly UCL, are in the top six for IB, yes. They are not in the top six for every subject or graduate market. Warwick, in particular, is barely top ten outside maths, econ and so on.

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