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Should schools alter changing rooms, toilets + uniforms to accommodate trans pupils?

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Original post by Wewuz Hebrews
At my school people were standing on toilet seats chucking stuff at people's heads as they used the bathroom (not me because that's too dirty, even for the bottom of my boot)


Well maybe your school needed bathroom poilce :lolwut: But that's not an issue with gender neutral bathrooms so much as with discipline.

Or no uniform and respect the wishes of every single individual rather than destroying people's identities...

My school had no school uniform. :yep:
Original post by AlmightyJesus
^this (Y)


I really want to hammer this point home.


Why is is not ok to suppress the identity of people who are trans, but it is ok to suppress the identity of everyone in a collective way?
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
Well maybe your school needed bathroom poilce :lolwut: But that's not an issue with gender neutral bathrooms so much as with discipline.


It was really middle class too, despite how bad it was underneath. The point is that it would go from hardcore LAD banter to something more sinister pretty quickly where literally half the school would suffer.


Original post by Puddles the Monkey
My school had no school uniform. :yep:


is the fairest solution
Reply 23
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Reue
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If it's that big of an issue then install some wooden cubical walls in a corner of the changing room, much like they have at most swimming pools.

Boys and girls should have the option of wearing the same uniform regardless.
Original post by Oilfreak1

Spoiler



So tolerant :yy:


The little bow on his hat kills it :rofl:
(edited 8 years ago)
At the college where I taught, we had a girl who changed to being a boy. He used the disabled loo. The other students knew before the college was told and they had no issues with it at all. I had no difficulty remembering to call him by his name but frequently forgot and said "she" and "her" instead of "he" and "him", but we coped.

The biggest problem was with the exam boards. They were used to having people change their name part way through a modular qualification, but took some persuading that this male with one name was still the same person as the female with a different name.
Original post by JohnGreek
kick him/her out at the start of the next academic year :devil:


If you are a guy, could you request to be allowed to attend an all girls school on the grounds of sexual discrimination?
Original post by Wewuz Hebrews
If you are a guy, could you request to be allowed to attend an all girls school on the grounds of sexual discrimination?


Original post by JohnGreek
No idea lol - we'll let tumblr figure that out :biggrin:


I don't think so. Girlguiding is allowed to be a single sex organisation and can still apply for grants. The reason I said the last bit is that some 20 years ago or so, all male or all female rowing clubs couldn't get grants from the Sports Foundation (or whatever they were called). That's why Leander started admitting women. It was a bit hard on women's rowing clubs such as Weybridge Ladies who had only set up as a club because the local rowing clubs wouldn't allow women to join them.
I have mixed feelings about this because in my book if you identify yourself as a female then you're a female and therefore can use the female toilets. Same goes for guys. If we isolate them and give them their own toilets then aren't we just pushing them further away? As if they aren't 'normal' enough to use the same toilets as everyone else?

This topic is interesting because in my school no one came out as being trans and same goes for my sixth form. Maybe they were there and kept it a secret. I don't know. But I think the focus should be on educating people. Once they know more about this, people will care less about where someone decides to pee.
Original post by AlmightyJesus
aren't there already disabled loos in schools? maybe there should be a "disabled/neutral toilet" if not.

Disabled toilets are there for disabled people. It's bad enough when disabled people can't go to the toilet in a public place because their loos are used as baby changing rooms for lazy companies who can't be bothered to install a baby changing table and nappy bin in the ladies and gents loos.

There's no reason why any standard, all cubicle, toilet can't be made unisex without taking away what limited access to toilets disabled people have.
Original post by PQ
Disabled toilets are there for disabled people. It's bad enough when disabled people can't go to the toilet in a public place because their loos are used as baby changing rooms for lazy companies who can't be bothered to install a baby changing table and nappy bin in the ladies and gents loos.

There's no reason why any standard, all cubicle, toilet can't be made unisex without taking away what limited access to toilets disabled people have.


I'm just doubting whether the obvious symbolic value is proportional to the extra costs
Original post by MarleyZ
The Association of Teachers and Lecturers has voted to lobby for better training for staff to support transgender pupils.

Teachers with experience of supporting these pupils have said that changes to toilets, changing rooms and uniforms are more straightforward ways to help - what do you think?

Should these changes be made? ie. all gender toilets and changing rooms


What a ridiculous idea.

Do you have any clue at all how small school's budgets are? If money gets wasted on this crap I don't even know what to say. Let's work on improving medical services/ education before we worry about this social justice nonsense.
Original post by AlmightyJesus
I'm just doubting whether the obvious symbolic value is proportional to the extra costs


What is the extra cost to changing the signs on the all-cubicle toilets?

And when it comes to time to re-fit any toilets with urinals refitting in a way to maximise the number of cubicles available and putting the urinals in a smaller segregated area?

The costs involved are minimal unless you're looking for excuses. Noone is saying toilets should be torn out and refitted immediately just for this. They're saying that staff need better training and that schools should consider these issues when making decisions about changing rooms, toilets and uniforms.
Original post by ComputerMaths97
What a ridiculous idea.

Do you have any clue at all how small school's budgets are? If money gets wasted on this crap I don't even know what to say. Let's work on improving medical services/ education before we worry about this social justice nonsense.


How does changing uniform policy affect school budgets?
Original post by PQ
Disabled toilets are there for disabled people.


Agree here.


Original post by PQ
It's bad enough when disabled people can't go to the toilet in a public place because their loos are used as baby changing rooms for lazy companies who can't be bothered to install a baby changing table and nappy bin in the ladies and gents loos.




Still with you.


Original post by PQ

There's no reason why any standard, all cubicle, toilet can't be made unisex without taking away what limited access to toilets disabled people have.


This is what is so wrong, you are removing the right to privacy and comfort for the majority simply to push this agenda and I would happily say there should be a male only, female only, disabled and universal toilet, but stop undermining the rights of men and women to have peace and safety.
Original post by PQ
What is the extra cost to changing the signs on the all-cubicle toilets?

And when it comes to time to re-fit any toilets with urinals refitting in a way to maximise the number of cubicles available and putting the urinals in a smaller segregated area?

The costs involved are minimal unless you're looking for excuses. Noone is saying toilets should be torn out and refitted immediately just for this. They're saying that staff need better training and that schools should consider these issues when making decisions about changing rooms, toilets and uniforms.


well obviously there's going to need to be a new toilet room - there will need to be 2 for the respective genders, and another for the gender neutral toilet. most schools today won't have trans people, so it'll be a facility that won't be used for this purpose as a matter of inevitable reality. therefore, the spending on these facilities will clearly not match the utility of the trans person. I do think that there should be the equivalent of a disabled toilet, whether or not it would be labelled "disabled toilet" if it can apply to the vast minority of individuals in society, being trans or disabled
no fricking way
Original post by Wewuz Hebrews
This is what is so wrong, you are removing the right to privacy and comfort for the majority simply to push this agenda and I would happily say there should be a male only, female only, disabled and universal toilet, but stop undermining the rights of men and women to have peace and safety.

Most secondary schools have more than one set of toilets.

I didn't say remove the toilets - I said rebadging cubicle only toilets as unisex would suit most people. It's down to individual schools to decide what balance works best for them and whether there is a need to preserve gender segregated toilets.

How does a gender segregated bathroom keep you safe:confused:?
Original post by PQ
How does changing uniform policy affect school budgets?


We're not talking about "changing uniform policy" so don't try that manipulative argument winning tactic with me.

We're talking about "altering changing rooms, toilets + uniforms" not just uniforms.

Okay so you're telling me that bringing in changes to toilets, changing rooms and uniforms is not going to cost money? Seriously?

Imagine how many schools there are, for every single school to impliment these, even in the most cost efficient way (which usually equates to least time efficient, or just not very useful) will cost millions to sort all the schools out. If you genuinely think them millions are better spent getting extra special toilets in every single school for the tiny minority of people than for example improving health services then you're clearly not open to a logical argument.
Original post by AlmightyJesus
well obviously there's going to need to be a new toilet room

why?

What school have you been to that only has a single set of toilets for the pupils?

Even my tiny primary school of 180 pupils had 6 sets of toilets (3 male, 3 female) - and that was in an old victorian building.

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