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No, meaning that it's not necessarily screamingly obvious that you would go for the one that 'sounds right' when you don't know and can't research it. Like most people I don't have a perfect ear for language and sometimes i trust an educated guess over my intuition.

As you rightly said, there are different opinions. You needn't jump on everyone that doesn't agree with yours... :wink:
Reply 21
Haha cheers for the neg Timeslikethese.

You know, I would say sorry for negging you in the first place, because the advice you could give may well be helpful, but I negged you because from what I can gather, you're a bit of an arrogant snob who belittles people who ask for advice or who have the "wrong" opinion.

i.e "I fail to see the point of this so called 'golden rule' whatever your teacher may or may not know, Is she french? If not, it makes no odds. Had she graduated from bangor she probably knows less than I do now"

Also, it is strange how you write:

"As a previous A grade A level student now going in for a first class degree, who was accepted by cambridge (yes we can all be big and clever), i'm telling you that it's crappy advice to give or fall back on."

And yet write:

"Learn that other opinions exist."

Hmmm, it appears that other opinions do exist, but only yours are right.
Also the reciprocal neg rep was very mature, well done old chap :biggrin:
Lumix
Haha cheers for the neg Timeslikethese.

You know, I would say sorry for negging you in the first place, because the advice you could give may well be helpful, but I negged you because from what I can gather, you're a bit of an arrogant snob who belittles people who ask for advice or who have the "wrong" opinion.

i.e "I fail to see the point of this so called 'golden rule' whatever your teacher may or may not know, Is she french? If not, it makes no odds. Had she graduated from bangor she probably knows less than I do now"

Also, it is strange how you write:

"As a previous A grade A level student now going in for a first class degree, who was accepted by cambridge (yes we can all be big and clever), i'm telling you that it's crappy advice to give or fall back on."

And yet write:

"Learn that other opinions exist."

Hmmm, it appears that other opinions do exist, but only yours are right.
Also the reciprocal neg rep was very mature, well done old chap :biggrin:


Of course mine are right, that was the point. Obviously. Silly golden rules... learn your grammar in the first place eh, else if.. it's obvious.

You're welcome for the neg, I always return the favour. It's only polite.
Reply 23
no1mohsin
Always confused me this has, and it's often corrected in my essays. From what little I know i'll try and shed some light on what you've asked.

In terms of the "des autres" and "d'autres" you would you use the "d'autres" in construction which usually would take "de" e.g. "beacoup de"; other construction which don't have a set "de" in them, can take "des".

De l' is used, I think, in stuff that can be counted and when used, translates as "some" e.g. "de l'alcool". D' is used in abstract nouns e.g. "D'importance"

This is probably wrong lol, but i'm sure you'll get more sound advice.


The rule you quote is right as far as I know, but your application is wrong. Alcohol cannot be counted (always check: can you say "one alcohol, two alcohols, ..."?), therefore it would have to be "d'alcool", e.g. "J'ai achete beaucoup d'alcool." (sorry, the darned school computer won't let me do accents...). Countable nouns are used as follows: "Je pense a bien des choses.".
That's what I think, please do correct me if I'm wrong. Non scholae sed vitae discimus :wink:.

HBK89
Reply 24
wesetters
Not sure whether your rule is right or not, but that's a poor example because beaucoup will never be followed by "des" regardless.

Really? Never heard about that rule. Here there are quite a few results where it is used... or are the French getting it wrong themselves? Wouldn't be the first time - during my stay in France I was completely shocked by the complete absence of properly used conditionals and subjunctives :biggrin:.
Please enlighten me, the exam's coming closer and closer...
HBK89
Reply 25
I may have a shaky grasp of grammar at the best of times, but I can (almost) completely confidently say that "beaucoup des" does not exist. It's always "de", ie "j'ai beaucoup de voitures".

As for when to use des or d' or any other variants... it's something I've never grasped, and I think the only way for anyone to get it is by spending some quality time with a grammar book, doing some good ol' fashioned rote learning.
Reply 26
Beaucoup des does exist. You use it when you want to say "Lots of THE... etc", but apparently french people usually avoid saying it in favour of rephrasing.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=115592
Reply 27
Thanks a lot for that, very helpful :smile:.

HBK89
Expressions of quantity are always followed by de, with the exception of "la plupart des (hommes, p.e.)".
just wanted to say well done to the people who gave proper advice and didnt argue over petty points.

the actual grammar-related responses were helpful.

i admit that i often use the 'golden rule' thing when im not sure of something. not everyone is perfect.

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