Is feminism really so very reasonable?

Workshops would be pointless until the law comes to a concrete definition of "ability to consent."

I don't think the problem is with the law, the problem is with the inherent difficulty in defining any concrete point at which someone ceases to be able to consent.

The Court of Appeal has ruled that drunken consent is still consent. There are some cases that are more problematic (the one about the footballer a few years back who had sex in a hotel room with that woman), but this is really I think related to the inherent problem of defining neurological states for which we don't really have absolute, measurable scientific definitions

Reply 81

username471863

19

Original post by Skyarex

Yes, because the people that deserve that speech on what consent is are undergraduate students who spent the vast majority of their life getting an education, only to be told they are too stupid to discern when a woman says no to them. The whole concept is incredibly patronising. Do you honestly think that some guy is going to walk into these consent classes ( especially now considering rape ads are all over the damn place) and genuinely learn anything that hasn't already been drilled into his skull by now? Also, how very inclusive that only men get this class. Very fitting too, because of course, women can't rape.

I didn't specify a gender for rapists so yes, everyone should attend. I have actually come across a people (on the Internet, admittedly) who were surprised at the fact that consent can be revoked at any time and thought that this was a great injustice. Young people should be taught about consent properly before they are undergraduate students, at the same time when they are required to take sex education classes.

Reply 82

BeastOfSyracuse

1

Original post by Skyarex

Yes, because the people that deserve that speech on what consent is are undergraduate students who spent the vast majority of their life getting an education, only to be told they are too stupid to discern when a woman says no to them. The whole concept is incredibly patronising. Do you honestly think that some guy is going to walk into these consent classes ( especially now considering rape ads are all over the damn place) and genuinely learn anything that hasn't already been drilled into his skull by now? Also, how very inclusive that only men get this class. Very fitting too, because of course, women can't rape.

My own view is that consent classes at university are silly, and far too late (and somewhat contrary to the idea that at university you are consenting to what you are learning. Throwing consent education into every subject, from law to physics, is contrary to the principle of choice)

It is absolutely appropriate to teach it in high school in sex education around the age of 13. And from my experience, what happened at parties with alcohol in high school were the ones where a much better understanding of consent would have been helpful. At university people are already much more set in their attitudes and probably have already lost their virginity and been in situations where the boundaries of consent were less than clear

Reply 83

rockrunride

19

Original post by KingBradly

Choosing career paths that don't earn as much money (arts, rather than STEM fields).

The pay gap is one observed by the difference in salaries between men and women in the same profession. Not across society.

Reply 84

KingBradly

OP

1

Original post by rockrunride

The pay gap is one observed by the difference in salaries between men and women in the same profession. Not across society.

No it isn't. It's been proven that once you control for the different choices women make, there are in fact no differences in salaries. The Equal Pay Act of 1970 prohibits any less favourable treatment between men and women in terms of pay and conditions of employment.

Reply 85

rockrunride

19

Original post by KingBradly

No it isn't. It's been proven that once you control for the different choices women make, there are in fact no differences in salaries. The Equal Pay Act of 1970 prohibits any less favourable treatment between men and women in terms of pay and conditions of employment.

Well yes... legislation is one thing, practice is another. That's applicable to a fair few laws.

Reply 86

KingBradly

OP

1

Original post by rockrunride

Well yes... legislation is one thing, practice is another. That's applicable to a fair few laws.

May I ask a question? How much evidence would it take to make you change your mind? Or do you simply take your position because you feel it suits you, rather like a nice watch? Because if you were really interested in this discussion, you'd have done a quick Google about it long ago.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harvard-prof.-takes-down-gender-wage-gap-myth/article/2580405

http://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#3ed614ee4766

http://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/

Reply 87

Jebedee

17

Original post by rockrunride

Well yes... legislation is one thing, practice is another. That's applicable to a fair few laws.

It amazes me there are still people who buy into the myth.

[video="youtube;BDj_bN0L8XM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM[/video]

Reply 88

MJ1012

18

Original post by BeastOfSyracuse

I don't think the problem is with the law, the problem is with the inherent difficulty in defining any concrete point at which someone ceases to be able to consent.

The Court of Appeal has ruled that drunken consent is still consent. There are some cases that are more problematic (the one about the footballer a few years back who had sex in a hotel room with that woman), but this is really I think related to the inherent problem of defining neurological states for which we don't really have absolute, measurable scientific definitions

That's the problem, it's so subjective. I remember a judge using evidence of the drunken stumbling (possibly the aforementioned footballer case) and others say "you were actively engaging in the act, therefore there's nothing wrong."

You could follow a workshop to a tee and still get convicted for rape.

Reply 89

username2228735

15

My issue is not with feminism per se. It's with many of its representatives and the individuals who makes certain claims without backing said claims with fact and/or evidence. Not having access to something does not necessarily make it unfair.