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E.U Leave Or Remain: Absolute Or Shared Sovereignty?

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Original post by otester
So you want an unelected branch of government to force through unpopular measures?


The Commission cannot force anything through, and has no immediate legislative power. It may submit proposals, but is otherwise not a part of the EU legislative process. It has no more of a legislative role than (unelected) advisory groups have in the UK.
Original post by otester
The European Parliament president Jerzy Buzek proposed in 2010 that Commissioners be directly elected, by member states placing their candidate at the top of their voting lists in European elections. That would give them individually, and the body as a whole, a democratic mandate. Implying the current system is undemocratic.

And dozens of ignorant hobbledyhoys daily call for electing the House of Lords or the monarchy. Doesn't make the UK any less a democracy.
Original post by otester
The European Parliament president Jerzy Buzek proposed in 2010 that Commissioners be directly elected, by member states placing their candidate at the top of their voting lists in European elections. That would give them individually, and the body as a whole, a democratic mandate. Implying the current system is undemocratic.


What you are effectively saying is that the citizens of Europe should directly elect the civil service of the EU. I'm not sure I believe that is really a good idea.

The majority have the ability to vote, if they choose not to exercise their vote, that is also a "vote" in itself.


I'm still not getting it. The members of the European Parliament are directly elected by the citizens of the EU, the government representatives (in various capacities) are elected by the citizens of each state… where is the part that is not democratic?
Original post by gladders
And dozens of ignorant hobbledyhoys daily call for electing the House of Lords or the monarchy. Doesn't make the UK any less a democracy.


I'm not sure that believing that the second House in Parliament should be elected is a sign of ignorance.
Original post by typonaut
I'm not sure that believing that the second House in Parliament should be elected is a sign of ignorance.


I'll leave that argument for another day, I admit I came on a bit strong there. It's not ignorant, you are right.

Still means we are democratic though.
Original post by otester
Democracy is majority rule, the majority do not make EU rules, therefore the EU is not a democracy.


Ah, I think I finally have it, by democracy do you mean the model of democracy in ancient Greece?

If so, then you are correct, we do not have democracy. What we do have is delegated democracy - we vote, and we delegate our democratic rights to the will of Parliament.
Don't forget we also need to have an elected judiciary, to truly represent 'the people'
Original post by Davij038
Don't forget we also need to have an elected judiciary, to truly represent 'the people'


I think that's another thing we don't really want - you'd end up with Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson running the UK Supreme Court.
Original post by Davij038
Don't forget we also need to have an elected judiciary, to truly represent 'the people'


Hoping you're not serious.
Original post by gladders
And dozens of ignorant hobbledyhoys daily call for electing the House of Lords or the monarchy. Doesn't make the UK any less a democracy.


House of Lords lost it's real power a long time ago.
Original post by otester
House of Lords lost it's real power a long time ago.


It's arguable that it's enjoying a resurgence lately, though.
Original post by gladders
It's arguable that it's enjoying a resurgence lately, though.


Based on what evidence?
Original post by otester
Based on what evidence?


Um, where have you been for the past fifteen years? Since the 1999 Act, the House of Lords has been more assertive, more active, and more self-confident.

I am not going to offer 'evidence' as a mere glance at the news for the past year will be illustrative. But academia is replete with articles acknowledging this. If you really want me to, I can, but...really?
Original post by gladders
Um, where have you been for the past fifteen years? Since the 1999 Act, the House of Lords has been more assertive, more active, and more self-confident.

I am not going to offer 'evidence' as a mere glance at the news for the past year will be illustrative. But academia is replete with articles acknowledging this. If you really want me to, I can, but...really?


So by resurgence you meant in activity, not actual power?
Original post by otester
So by resurgence you meant in activity, not actual power?


Correct, although I would argue power in practice has increased through that, too.

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