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Do you believe in God or not?

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Big Bang Theory lie.
Original post by champ_mc99
Again not my point whether there is evidence or not. Point was this explains why God doesn't need a creator.


Not really because there is no evidence for that claim. Otherwise someone can say it proves the FSM or the giant pink rabbit that created the universe :s-smilie:
Original post by karl pilkington
Well I believe they are. No religion out there mentions evolution, you may get some clever theologian to come along and say God created evolution I would say that is merely back tracking after they have been caught out. All religions say God created everything so the scientific fact of evolution directly contradicts that.


That's wrong. Christians have been reading against that fundamentalist interpretation for many centuries before evolution.

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Original post by *Stefan*
Prove that this is true then. I've asked this three times. Give concrete proof that God existed before the Big Bang and that he thereby created earth.

I agree. How is that relevant to what I said?

So, you asked for proof for what I said from the Bible and now say you won't bother with it. Sounds legit :rolleyes:

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Proof? If you remember the topic of our discussion, you asked why doesn't God need a creator and I kindly responded.

It's revelant because you say religion is false hence God is false because it's followed by the majority. My response was you don't need religion to believe in God. You made 3 posts on this, don't you remember?

That last bit: I responded to your claim that the Bible doesn't say the Earth is 6000 years old and you respond with how it says the Earth is flat. Perfect sense mate. :colonhash:
Yes
Original post by ModernGoodGuy
That's wrong. Christians have been reading against that fundamentalist interpretation for many centuries before evolution.

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true but it is not fundamentalism when the bible says 'in the beginning God created everything Adam and Eve etc' it is a fundamental aspect of the bible that God created everything. Evolution directly contradicts the bible and all other religious books.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Not really because there is no evidence for that claim. Otherwise someone can say it proves the FSM or the giant pink rabbit that created the universe :s-smilie:


No evidence for which claim. And btw... if any of those did create the universe, then:

FSM = A deity
Original post by *Stefan*
See? Condition after condition. "If"s all over the place. "If that is true, and if that is true, it follows that that is true if we base it on that". Sorry for not being convinced after this array of fallacies.

Are you being serious now? The vast majority of God-believers "belong" in a religion - to argue that this becomes irrelevant because of the random person believing in a deity but not being part of a religion is, frankly, nonsensical.
That would imply that the Bible is wrong, so yeah - everything comes back to my original argument.

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I don't see the array of fallacies? He simply gave propositions from which, he argues, entails more propositions.

If you accept the proposition on causation in the universe, etc.


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Original post by karl pilkington
true but it is not fundamentalism when the bible says 'in the beginning God created everything Adam and Eve etc' it is a fundamental aspect of the bible that God created everything. Evolution directly contradicts the bible and all other religious books.


This changed after the Christian reformation in which they now accept evolution and that God guided it.
check this out http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
Original post by karl pilkington
true but it is not fundamentalism when the bible says 'in the beginning God created everything Adam and Eve etc' it is a fundamental aspect of the bible that God created everything. Evolution directly contradicts the bible and all other religious books.


Sorry, you haven't really changed your point? The point is what does Genesis mean and does it contradict with evolution. Saying Genesis says God literally created Adam and Eve through intervention etc. Goes back to your original post that Christians believe life was created perfect.

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Original post by champ_mc99
This changed after the Christian reformation in which they now accept evolution and that God guided it.


yes that's my point they gradually change the goalposts the bible was meant to be the word of god so by going against that they are contradicting themselves.
Original post by ModernGoodGuy
I don't see the array of fallacies? He simply gave propositions from which, he argues, entails more propositions.

If you accept the proposition on causation in the universe, etc.


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Hmm, are you a new user or a dupe?
Original post by karl pilkington
yes that's my point they gradually change the goalposts the bible was meant to be the word of god so by going against that they are contradicting themselves.


Mmmm...
Original post by champ_mc99
Proof? If you remember the topic of our discussion, you asked why doesn't God need a creator and I kindly responded.

It's revelant because you say religion is false hence God is false because it's followed by the majority. My response was you don't need religion to believe in God. You made 3 posts on this, don't you remember?

That last bit: I responded to your claim that the Bible doesn't say the Earth is 6000 years old and you respond with how it says the Earth is flat. Perfect sense mate. :colonhash:


You responded by saying that God is eternal and that he existed before the Big Bang. You did so in a factual manner. So, I ask: where is your proof, since you're so certain as to render what you said into factual truth? Of course, we both know you cannot prove anything, which yet again goes back to my original post. Making unsubstantiated claims is not proof, by the way.

Erm, is this a deliberate strawman? I never claimed religion is false in itself - I claimed that the idea of a God is false (and hence the subject matter of religion). Religion itself cannot be false since it actually exists - it can be wrong.

Okay, at least now you're explaining your debating skills. I literally said "read Genesis 5 and 11" - which gives proof to the point that, in Christianity, the Earth is 6000 years old. As an ADDED BONUS, I said, there are further nonsensical claims in the Bible. Capisci?

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(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 175
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cchiara
I really don't.
Firstly, because I just don't think there is anyone up there controlling anything.
Secondly, because I don't like the mere concept of religion. I find it to be almost like an excuse for people not to take responsabilities, a way of giving yourself a "fire escape".
Original post by champ_mc99
No evidence for which claim. And btw... if any of those did create the universe, then:

FSM = A deity


That God exists outside of space and time.
Original post by ModernGoodGuy
Sorry, you haven't really changed your point? The point is what does Genesis mean and does it contradict with evolution. Saying Genesis says God literally created Adam and Eve through intervention etc. Goes back to your original post that Christians believe life was created perfect.

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I don't understand your point at all. My point is that is says in the bible god created everything as it exists (man and woman) etc. So evolution as a scientific fact contradicts this. You can't then come along retrospectively and so oh well the bible didn't really mean that after all.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
That God exists outside of space and time.


If he created the universe how can he not?
Original post by champ_mc99
If he created the universe how can he not?


The word being "if", which drives back to the fundamental question, where is the evidence this god exists in the first place?

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