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64% of TSR want to remain in the EU... share your vote

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Original post by Galaxie501
Thats really not a good poll result for a forum community focused on education......

Makes me wish Higher Level Economics, Politics and Philosophy were mandatory courses at all school.




(But then again, a huge number of Bernie supporters are also supposedly young college educated people)


See the survey I posted above. High level of Levers among those whose highest qualification is GCSE, and a high level of Remainers among graduates.
Original post by jneill
See the survey I posted above. High level of Levers among those whose highest qualification is GCSE, and a high level of Remainers among graduates.


In other words: those with vested interests in staying vote to remain, those with vested interests in leaving vote to leave...

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Original post by Jammy Duel
In other words: those with vested interests in staying vote to remain, those with vested interests in leaving vote to leave...

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And yet not even 100% of UKIP supporters want to leave. "You have one job..." :smile:
Original post by Jammy Duel
In other words: those with vested interests in staying vote to remain, those with vested interests in leaving vote to leave...

Posted from TSR Mobile


No, I'd benefit if the UK stayed in, but I want whats best for the UK, which is obviously if they leave.

I cannot vote, since im not a UK citizen.
Original post by jneill
And yet not even 100% of UKIP supporters want to leave. "You have one job..." :smile:


It relies on two things: first is that people are honest in saying how they voted and would vote, second you imply that 100% of ukip voters voted that way, or would vote that way, over the EU alone.

Original post by Galaxie501
No, I'd benefit if the UK stayed in, but I want whats best for the UK, which is obviously if they leave.

I cannot vote, since im not a UK citizen.


Obviously there are principled people on both sides, but most are not.

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Original post by jneill
See the survey I posted above. High level of Levers among those whose highest qualification is GCSE, and a high level of Remainers among graduates.


Thats an interesting statistic, but it confirmes what I said about the Bernie supporters. Many of them have good education aswell and they still vote for Bernie in spite of that.

I admit that it might be a bad comparison to compare Bernie voters and Remainers. US citizens are forced to vote for the lesser of three evils - metaphorically.
Original post by Galaxie501
Thats an interesting statistic, but it confirmes what I said about the Bernie supporters. Many of them have good education aswell and they still vote for Bernie in spite of that.

I admit that it might be a bad comparison to compare Bernie voters and Remainers. US citizens are forced to vote for the lesser of three evils - metaphorically.


It also has to be noted that so many Americans do not understand what socialism is, especially in the younger generation. Better education there and Bernie would have barely made it out of the blocks

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Original post by Jammy Duel
It relies on two things: first is that people are honest in saying how they voted and would vote, second you imply that 100% of ukip voters voted that way, or would vote that way, over the EU alone.

Posted from TSR Mobile


If UKIP isn't all about UK independence from EU what is it about?

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Original post by jneill
If UKIP isn't all about UK independence from EU what is it about?

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It's not quite a one policy party and people are allowed to protest vote

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Original post by Jammy Duel
It also has to be noted that so many Americans do not understand what socialism is, especially in the younger generation. Better education there and Bernie would have barely made it out of the blocks

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Precisely! I should get some of my relatives from the GDR to explain real socialism to them. I know they really enjoyed it...

I can already see the "b..bu...but thats not real socialism...." comments.
Original post by Galaxie501
Precisely! I should get some of my relatives from the GDR to explain real socialism to them. I know they really enjoyed it...

I can already see the "b..bu...but thats not real socialism...." comments.


The strongest supporters of socialism have never lived it, those that have are the strongest opponents.

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(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Jammy Duel
The strongest supporters of socialism have never loved it, those that have are the strongest opponents.

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I think you mean "lived it"...

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Original post by jneill
I think you mean "lived it"...

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Autocorrect

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Original post by EmmaRoseJones

Why the EU is great:
Free trade with a say on the EU trade laws
EU encourages investment
Police coordination - European arrant warrant.
Influence in and out of Europe
Immigration and emigration - good thing!
EU safeguards
Education and scientific funding


Your whole list is about current EU policies. What will you do if the Afd, FN, AFP get into a governing position in the EU?

This Referendum is about the decades to come. If you vote Remain you are committing the UK to accepting that all of the policies that you list above could be changed by Brussels to anything they want. The UK has <10% of the vote in the EU Council and EU Parliament and is almost powerless on its own.

Did you know that the Eurozone is planning Stage 2 of Union, Political Union, by 2025? Majority voting (not vetoes) now decides EU policy so after 2025 the EU will be the Eurogroup and the UK(plus Denmark and poss Sweden) and the Eurogroup will rule us. What then? What if the Eurogroup, a new country, swings far right?

This Referendum is a constitutional matter for the near and far future. If you vote Remain you will terminate UK Self Government for all future generations.
Original post by newpersonage
Your whole list is about current EU policies. What will you do if the Afd, FN, AFP get into a governing position in the EU?


Fear! Panic! Turkey!

They won't, and if they did then you would still have big problems if you were out of the EU.

At least be IN to try to help prevent that. (Even if you only have 10% of the vote, that's still a moderating 10%, hopefully...).

Running away because you are worried about the far-right (or far-left) taking over Europe is frankly cowardice.
Original post by jneill
Fear! Panic! Turkey!

They won't, and if they did then you would still have big problems if you were out of the EU.

At least be IN to try to help prevent that. (Even if you only have 10% of the vote, that's still a moderating 10%, hopefully...).

Running away because you are worried about the far-right (or far-left) taking over Europe is frankly cowardice.


Lets follow your reasoning: the way to have opposed the Soviet Union would have been to join them as a small minority and tell them they were wrong. Hmmm, should work..... see you in Siberia.

Aren't you ashamed that you are campaigning to remove self government from all future generations of British people?
Original post by newpersonage
Lets follow your reasoning: the way to have opposed the Soviet Union would have been to join them as a small minority and tell them they were wrong. Hmmm, should work..... see you in Siberia.

Aren't you ashamed that you are campaigning to remove self government from all future generations of British people?

So the EU is now the Soviet Union.

FUD

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Original post by jneill
So the EU is now the Soviet Union.

FUD

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No, I am just pointing out the futility of trying to get a massive country, such as the Eurozone will form after political union in 2025, to do your bidding when you are a tiny minority.
Original post by jneill
Fear! Panic! Turkey!

They won't, and if they did then you would still have big problems if you were out of the EU.

At least be IN to try to help prevent that. (Even if you only have 10% of the vote, that's still a moderating 10%, hopefully...).

Running away because you are worried about the far-right (or far-left) taking over Europe is frankly cowardice.


Ah yes, this delusion that inside we have this epic influence, so much influence that Cameron's "deal" amounted to 'we should stay because they gave us a red card that is effectively impossible to use and didn't ask to take anything away from us up front!'

Even we the threat of leaving we appear to have no influence within the system, after locking in for a few more decades magically we will have more? Or how about when we joined and we had a greater proportional voice? We've spent half a century trying to influence the path of the EU to no great avail, greater influence than we have now and it was still next to none.

Why not propose joining the US to try to fix their gun laws and implement and NHS style system given we would have so much influence in things...

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Original post by EmmaRoseJones
May I add that you've basically said that it would be good for the economy slide down into dispair for the thought of your local shop selling cheap bread. Do you think that is more valuable than affordable mortgages? It's estimated the average mortgage will rise by £900 a month! I love supporting local, independent businesses however we live in a world of globalisation where large companies are essential for the income of many.

Why the EU is great:
Free trade with a say on the EU trade laws
EU encourages investment
Police coordination - European arrant warrant.
Influence in and out of Europe
Immigration and emigration - good thing!
EU safeguards
Education and scientific funding


That's total rubbish. Do you know that google paid the same tax one year as one person on 20+grand a year? The tax frevnue thing is nonsense, even if they paid a resonable rate, they wouldn''t contribute more, smaller business would pay more given the same share of the market-corporate monopoly doesn't benefit anyone, apart from parties that get donations, and the corporations themselves. They are actually more inclined to pay low wages, and again polticians like this. To say that there'd be no jobs without them is rubbish, that's because smaller domestic business and competition(what capitalism is supposed to be) has been squeezed out by corporate monopoly aided by governments. They would create different jobs.

We don't have free trade, they can't even make trade deals with China and India for god's sake, we were so much better historically, it's what we're good at. We can't trade with Africa either, bad for their prosperity and ours. Because the EU is protectionist, you can't get the better products at cheaper prices from other parts of the world, so you are paying more for food. They are anti-competitive and protectionist, so you pay more in favour of European goods, you also have to accept free movement and unaccountable layers of power making decisions you have zero say in. They are the reason a curry house has to prioritize a chef from Poland over one from India who speaks English. No-one else is facing these trade conditions, not Japan, Australia, NZ , Canada. We have it so woefully worse than the anglosphere, and our former colonies, we are tying ourselves to the least competitive and most protectionist block in the world, to not ostensible benefit. As for migration, we are richer, which all goes to the top of our society, the fact we are richer means migrants from poor countries, wage compression, undercutting our own people and creating poverty and destitution at the bottom rung, which will only create more social problems.
I don't understand the point about mortgages at all, I don't believe it for a second, it just sounds like the most cynical crap that Osbourne and Cameron come out with. How is flooding our labour market with people and creating so much poverty and low wages, where we need to build so many houses, where so many people can't afford them. good for house prices or accessibility? It doesn't make sense.

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