The Student Room Group

IVF on the NHS

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Original post by brainhuman
Exactly, it is subjective. So if I feel ugly, it's affecting my quality of life, hence according to your logic I should get free surgery.

That's what you don't understand about your own argument. Yours is a mental problem. There is no physical harm to you. It is all mental - "oh I feel so sad I can't get pregnant". So if you argue for treatment in this case, logically you should argue for treatment of every single mental problem someone may have.




I understand that there's no physical harm, but inability to conceive is not a psychological problem, it's physical. Feeling ugly is a psychological problem and if you find mechanisms to become more confident/comfortable in your own skin, those feelings will subside especially with things like hair&make up and even altering fashion style to increase confidence. Infertility cannot be fixed with those things or anything else..there's no way you can make yourself fertile
Original post by cherryred90s
I understand that there's no physical harm, but inability to conceive is not a psychological problem, it's physical. Feeling ugly is a psychological problem and if you find mechanisms to become more confident/comfortable in your own skin, those feelings will subside especially with things like hair&make up and even altering fashion style to increase confidence. Infertility cannot be fixed with those things or anything else..there's no way you can make yourself fertile


Some things you just either have to accept or put your own money forward to fix. Society should not have pay for your selfish desire to have children.
Original post by DiddyDec
Some things you just either have to accept or put your own money forward to fix. Society should not have pay for your selfish desire to have children.


Lol it's 'selfish' to want to fulfil basically our only purpose and the only true determinant of biological fitness? :rolleyes:
Original post by DiddyDec
Some things you just either have to accept or put your own money forward to fix. Society should not have pay for your selfish desire to have children.


How is it selfish to want to have children?
Original post by cherryred90s
How is it selfish to want to have children?


How is it not...
Reply 45
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Original post by brainhuman
What organ is failing under this condition.

The testis.

Original post by brainhuman

And note, not working as it should is not the same as failing.


Can you define the difference for me? Maybe we can come up with some more savings for the NHS.
Original post by brainhuman
How is it not...


Just as someone has brought you into the world, watched you grow, clothed and fed you, entertained you, nursed and protected you..how is it selfish to want to offer the same unconditional love to someone else?
Original post by Freudian Slit
Lol it's 'selfish' to want to fulfil basically our only purpose and the only true determinant of biological fitness? :rolleyes:


Original post by cherryred90s
How is it selfish to want to have children?


The only reason people have children is to benefit themselves, it is selfish at its core.

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Original post by cherryred90s
Just as someone has brought you into the world, watched you grow, clothed and fed you, entertained you, nursed and protected you..how is it selfish to want to offer the same unconditional love to someone else?


1. Read what you wrote. It is your own desire to "offer unconditional love".
2. And considering you want others to pay for this.

Why don't we spend the money not on IVF for you, but on some kid in Asia? You know, one that is already alive and suffering. That wouldn't be selfish at all, would it.
Original post by DiddyDec
The only reason people have children is to benefit themselves, it is selfish at its core.

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Lol except it's pretty much one of the must altruistic acts ever considering the level of energy you invest and the sacrifices you make for offspring.

We are wired to pass on our genes- it's the whole purpose of our existence. Do you understand what kind of hormones women feel when they are ovulating? The powerful feeling of broodiness? Yeah I thought not.
Original post by hovado
The testis.



Can you define the difference for me? Maybe we can come up with some more savings for the NHS.


How is it failing?

Maybe you just waited too long and missed your time frame. And now others have to pay for your mistake.
Original post by DiddyDec
The only reason people have children is to benefit themselves, it is selfish at its core.

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How is morning sickness/contractions/painful childbirth benefitting you?
How is putting your social life on hold benefitting you?
How is running on a lack of sleep because of waking up 3-4 times in the middle of the night benefitting you?
How is spending a majority of your expendable income on someone else benefitting you?
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Original post by brainhuman
How is it failing?


Well they have 2 jobs, if you suffer from oligozoospermia they're failing in at least one of those.



Original post by brainhuman

Maybe you just waited too long and missed your time frame. And now others have to pay for your mistake.


So you'd be happy to see IVF on the NHS as long as there's an age cut off?
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Original post by DiddyDec
The only reason people have children is to benefit themselves, it is selfish at its core.


I dunno, not passing on your genes could be seen as selfish, not putting any effort into creating the next generation seems quite selfish.
Original post by hovado
Well they have 2 jobs, if you suffer from oligozoospermia they're failing in at least one of those.





So you'd be happy to see IVF on the NHS as long as there's an age cut off?


But are they failing you to a point where it is physically harmful to you?

Sure, it would certainly be better, but in that case an entire case by case approach that considered more than just a age cut-off would be appropriate.
Original post by brainhuman
1. Read what you wrote. It is your own desire to "offer unconditional love".
2. And considering you want others to pay for this.

Why don't we spend the money not on IVF for you, but on some kid in Asia? You know, one that is already alive and suffering. That wouldn't be selfish at all, would it.


I know what I wrote. Of course it's your own desire, nobody said having a child was essential. Nobody can understand the pain and distress that can come from a lack of fertility until you've actually experienced it. It can be truly devastating, especially because it's through no fault of their own.

We do spend money on suffering children in various parts of the world.
Maybe you just waited too long and missed your time frame. And now others have to pay for your mistake.


I agree with you here. I think there should be an age cut off, only make it available for women of childbearing age.
I'm infertile and believe IVF should NOT be available on the NHS under ANY circumstances. Having children isn't a human right or essential for survival. Plus if you can't hope to pay for IVF, how in bloody hell are you gonna support a child?
Original post by cherryred90s
I know what I wrote. Of course it's your own desire, nobody said having a child was essential. Nobody can understand the pain and distress that can come from a lack of fertility until you've actually experienced it. It can be truly devastating, especially because it's through no fault of their own.

We do spend money on suffering children in various parts of the world.


So, tell me, why should this particular scenario deserve money from a social pot and others not? I mean that is what the NHS essentially is. A country wide health insurance. You should get the treatment from the social pot because you really really want something?

How about you get a psychologist who helps you accept that you can't have kids.
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Original post by brainhuman
How about you get a psychologist who helps you accept that you can't have kids.

Even if that ends up costing the NHS more?

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