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Original post by Butternuts96
Kinda goes to show that the TSR resident islamophobes all employ the same devices;all sourced from hugely biased propaganda.


As opposed to the resident Salafis who only have one response to all discussion (and criticism) of the religion...
Original post by chemting
As opposed to the resident Salafis who only have one response to all discussion (and criticism) of the religion...


If the shoe fits ...
Because those faiths aren't under significant attack and scruitny by the world.
Original post by Butternuts96
Good for you that you had a "stimulating discussion". Also, why is the term mickey mouse so offensive to you but the way people speak about Islam is fine? And what's "generic and original" have to do with using the word? Did I say I invented the word?

And no, you don't need to be a sociologist to dismiss myths about Islam, especially when you're a muslim yourself. In a similar way, you don't have to have a BA in English to write a story.

Fyi: I have huge modules in psychology and sociology in my degree as well every single year of my degree.


Generic and unoriginal because your use of the term is the same way you use the term islamophobia.

You heard it on the media and blindly throw it around, thinking it makes you sound righteous, and a good person, defending against these hateful people. When in reality you accuse them of listening to the media and believing the media's (according to you) lies. And yet you do the exact same.

You say you don't do a mickey mouse degree so you can't define the word and yet you are happy to throw it around. Do you not see the irony?
Original post by Butternuts96
If the shoe fits ...


Or its just a good deflector, and provides an easy way out :tongue:

much like 5:101 :biggrin:
[QUOTE=chemting;64696665]Or its just a good deflector, and provides an easy way out :tongue:

much like 5:101 :biggrin:

You must also entertain the possibility that it's not a deflection. If someone called black people "robbers rapers and murderers" and someone said "That's racist", would you then say "It's not racist, you're deflecting!"?

Also, you guys get the wrong end of the stick with Quranic verses 100% of the time. Correcting your flawed logic on a daily basis makes me feel like I know a lot of Quran.

That verse is in direct reference to the Companions of Muhammed (peace and prayers upon him). They were advised to stop asking a bunch of questions non stop to the Prophet about Islam about matters that did not affect their lives in anyway. Basically "stay out of that which doesn't concern you"; which is a lesson that you can learn from as well :smile:
[QUOTE=brainhuman;64696649]Generic and unoriginal because your use of the term is the same way you use the term islamophobia.

You heard it on the media and blindly throw it around, thinking it makes you sound righteous, and a good person, defending against these hateful people. When in reality you accuse them of listening to the media and believing the media's (according to you) lies. And yet you do the exact same.

You say you don't do a mickey mouse degree so you can't define the word and yet you are happy to throw it around. Do you not see the irony?

No no, I'm afraid I don't see your point? Try again. Be more concise with your words.
Original post by Butternuts96
No no, I'm afraid I don't see your point? Try again. Be more concise with your words.


I'm afraid you are not intellectually capable, nor morally willing to try to understand my points.
Original post by Butternuts96
I answered your question. It's wrong from "top to bottom". And it's incredibly hateful and rude.


You are going round in circles. What is it about what I wrote in that post that is hateful? Be specific, and don't hide behind "from top to bottom". How can a bland description of how Islam came about be hateful? How is it rude?


Original post by Butternuts96

I don't get it. Are you so deluded that you think you are actually being respectful to muslims?


I described how Islam came about, and what it is about it that makes it so controversial in the west. I said nothing about Moslems, either respectful or disrespectul.

Original post by Butternuts96
Why are you guys so hellbent on a definitionv take the word literally as it is. Don't divert the attention away from the hate spewing from your mouths with facetious arguments.


Discussion of the meaning of "Islamophobia" is neither a distraction, nor is it facetious. It is important, since it is a term that emanates very easily from apologists in an attempt to close down discussion of the nature of Islam or criticism of it, as you are attempting to do here.

The normal dictionary definition (see the OED) is:

Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.

Can you see that it conflates dislike of Islam with dislike of and prejudice against Moslems? I will happily agree that I dislike Islam, but I have nothing whatever against Moslems as people. The definition is, therefore, to broad and ambiguous.

Some people, though, have narrowed the definition to:

hatred or fear of Muslims or of their politics or culture

This is the meaning I suspect you are using, and it makes no mention of Islam at all. It isn't relevant to me or what I posted at all.

The real problem seems to be that you cannot stomach criticism, whether open or implied, of Islam. This is going to be a major problem for you as the ideology is rightfully criticised for the effect it is having on western society, with so many British mosques have employing Saudi-funded imams of the Salafi school of thought, with their literal interpretations of the Koran. This brand of Islam is incompatible with western morality and politics, and will cause great problems.
Original post by Butternuts96
You must also entertain the possibility that it's not a deflection. If someone called black people "robbers rapers and murderers" and someone said "That's racist", would you then say "It's not racist, you're deflecting!"?

Unlike you, I can provide a working definition of "racism"

"a belief that [url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race[3"]race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

Unlike what you say about 'Islamophobia', I don't think "racism" is a term created by "people with mickey mouse degrees" :tongue:

Original post by Butternuts96
Also, you guys get the wrong end of the stick with Quranic verses 100% of the time. Correcting your flawed logic on a daily basis makes me feel like I know a lot of Quran.


That verse is in direct reference to the Companions of Muhammed (peace and prayers upon him). They were advised to stop asking a bunch of questions non stop to the Prophet about Islam about matters that did not affect their lives in anyway. Basically "stay out of that which doesn't concern you"; which is a lesson that you can learn from as well :smile:


Yes so my simile isn't wrong. But as I have said, this does concern me :tongue:

It is also in reference to asking questions about things that "has not been revealed yet" because it will "be revealed later" :tongue: ... make of that what you will.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by SaraBZ
Why do you hate Islam? Has it harmed you in any way or caused destruction to your life? Have you been a Muslim in the past? Are you afraid of the religion?


I dislike Islam strongly. It is an aggressive ideology that does not chime well with the freedom of thought and action our ancestors fought for and which we enjoy in the west. If it is allowed to become entrenched, and allowances made for it, in the west I certainly fear that we would lose our way of life and our freedoms.

Do I need to be personally affected by something to dislike it? Do you like the Incas religions which perpetrated human sacrifice? Were you personally affected by them?
[QUOTE=chemting;64697033]Unlike you, I can provide a working definition of "racism"

"a belief that [url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race[3"]race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

Unlike what you say about 'Islamophobia', I don't think "racism" is a term created by "people with mickey mouse degrees" :tongue:



Yes so my simile isn't wrong. But as I have said, this does concern me :tongue:

It is also in reference to asking questions about things that "has not been revealed yet" because it will "be revealed later" :tongue: ... make of that what you will.

Is your argument so bad that simple terms that like racism need be defined for them to have any value? This isn't an official debate with 1st 2nd 3rd and summary speakers and chairman. This is addressing simple racism and islamophobia on a student forum. Answer my question in the first paragraph of my previous reply! If anyone's deflecting ... It's you.

What's your simile again? Yes what concerns you about "questions that haven't been revealed yet"? The Quran never came down in one go, it came down in verses one by one answering different topics and the like till the very last verse.
[QUOTE=brainhuman;64696829]I'm afraid you are not intellectually capable, nor morally willing to try to understand my points.

Yes yes, having 3 years of debating experience as well as being involved in politics and being a medical student definetely counts for nothing towards my intelligence. Amirite?

Your previous post was a mess grammatically (I'm not being a grammar nazi). Not everything has to be spelt okay but it should be legible. Try again and I'll engage you. I promise.
Islamophobia is a contrived term that is used to silence any criticism of Islam. It's because the Government doesn't want people to be allowed to openly criticize Islam. That's why in the UK you can get arrested for being Islamophobic.
[QUOTE=Good bloke;64696861]You are going round in circles. What is it about what I wrote in that post that is hateful? Be specific, and don't hide behind "from top to bottom". How can a bland description of how Islam came about be hateful? How is it rude?




I described how Islam came about, and what it is about it that makes it so controversial in the west. I said nothing about Moslems, either respectful or disrespectul.



Discussion of the meaning of "Islamophobia" is neither a distraction, nor is it facetious. It is important, since it is a term that emanates very easily from apologists in an attempt to close down discussion of the nature of Islam or criticism of it, as you are attempting to do here.

The normal dictionary definition (see the OED) is:

Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.

Can you see that it conflates dislike of Islam with dislike of and prejudice against Moslems? I will happily agree that I dislike Islam, but I have nothing whatever against Moslems as people. The definition is, therefore, to broad and ambiguous.

Some people, though, have narrowed the definition to:

hatred or fear of Muslims or of their politics or culture

This is the meaning I suspect you are using, and it makes no mention of Islam at all. It isn't relevant to me or what I posted at all.

The real problem seems to be that you cannot stomach criticism, whether open or implied, of Islam. This is going to be a major problem for you as the ideology is rightfully criticised for the effect it is having on western society, with so many British mosques have employing Saudi-funded imams of the Salafi school of thought, with their literal interpretations of the Koran. This brand of Islam is incompatible with western morality and politics, and will cause great problems.

Do you honestly believe that it isn't hateful what you said? Do you think a muslim would look at your words and say "Oh that's lovely!"? If you say yes then I'll happily engage and describe exactly what went wrong in your post, with an expert analysis :smile:

I don't wanna talk about the definition as you clearly don't want to be labelled as hateful or islamophobe due to your delusions; you're justifying your vile speech.

Now we're on a different discussion ... Which mosques exactly are funded by Saudi? Which Which mosques follow the salafi school? And what's wrong with salafiyyah/wahhabism?

I follow that school in its entirety as it's the only sect in Islam that relies on authentic sources and doesn't twist the Islamic texts.

Btw, if you say terrorism/extremism, then I will not engage because that is a massive massive lie that is opposite to the salafi teachings.
Original post by Leukocyte

No. No. No. Yeah they're wrong.


So, to confirm, you think Mohammed was not a military leader in seventh century Arabia? This goes against everything that history tells us. I suggest you start learning about him. Wikipedia would be a good start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

If you prefer a more Islamic source then try:

https://islamqa.info/en/11575

It clearly describes Mohammed in military endeavours, for instance leading the siege of a city inhabited by Jews. It is incontrovertible: Mohammed was a military leader.
Original post by Butternuts96
Is your argument so bad that simple terms that like racism need be defined for them to have any value? This isn't an official debate with 1st 2nd 3rd and summary speakers and chairman. This is addressing simple racism and islamophobia on a student forum. Answer my question in the first paragraph of my previous reply! If anyone's deflecting ... It's you.

No, because I don't use blanket terms that isn't defined as a response to everything...

Original post by Butternuts96
What's your simile again? Yes what concerns you about "questions that haven't been revealed yet"? The Quran never came down in one go, it came down in verses one by one answering different topics and the like till the very last verse.


yeah... and for rationalists like me who do not believe in any "divine revelations", this is said as a way to dodge questions that he couldn't answer at that time (I assume because he didn't know it at the time, and later formulated a suitable answer). I know you think otherwise, but I don't think the quran "came down" or was "divinely revealed"...

but I guess you think that's Islamophobic...
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Butternuts96
Do you honestly believe that it isn't hateful what you said?


I do think that, as I have said repeatedly. I look forward to your analysis, which I have asked for several times.
Original post by lNurl
Because it's a global game.....

Big countries look at them see the religion and population grow, they stick to whatever they believe (which means it's easier to anger them) in comparison to western countries.

it's like bullying, but not your usual school bullying, it's on bigger scale, something like,

West: we are not allowed many things in our religion, but we don't care, we do whatever we want, do the same
Islam: No thanks, we are good, we like to practise whatever we want
W: Eat this pig with alcohol
I: No
W: Do it, or you will regret
I: NO!
W: Lets start a war over there, and make it look like its their fault...
W: Lets video something half fake half true, and show it to whole world
W: Islam, you should have eaten that pig!


Think about it, why don't America care about North Korea? Because they don't have oil, or anything that America/West can exploit.


I'm glad I am not the only one who has realised this my whole life!!!

Plus, I am a Muslim so if I say what you said I get accused of "Religion of Peace" and "Trying to force Shariah law" so I can't even freely express my views anymore without some moron coming and trying to put me down but it never works because I couldn't give less of a **** what others think about Islam
Original post by Butternuts96
Yes yes, having 3 years of debating experience as well as being involved in politics and being a medical student definetely counts for nothing towards my intelligence. Amirite?

Your previous post was a mess grammatically (I'm not being a grammar nazi). Not everything has to be spelt okay but it should be legible. Try again and I'll engage you. I promise.


Your life seems like a mess. Sort that out before I sort out my supposed grammar mess.