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Heartbreaker
As it says, no one was hurt. And yes, sorry it isnt in California, but the drinking age is kind of set federally, as you will know.

http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read/84433


Doesn't matter if the federal drinking age is 21, the prosecution of acts involving alcohol differs from state to state and even from county to county. The US legal system is probably the one least possible to make generalizations about among developed countries.
Two different states. They have different codes and different judges. You are simply comparing two high profile cases, and trying to draw a trend.
Reply 22
"Contributing to the delinquency of a minor"

What about the state contributing to the delinquency of adults by denying them a controlled introduction to alcohol at home? What a ridiculous law.
Reply 23
Thats the kind of point I was trying to make. :smile:
Reply 24
From what I've heard it does sound completely draconian.
Reply 25
Worzo
"Contributing to the delinquency of a minor"

What about the state contributing to the delinquency of adults by denying them a controlled introduction to alcohol at home? What a ridiculous law.


That makes absolutely no sense. It's illegal to give alcohol to minors. The parents gave alcohol to minors. You can argue about the size of the sentence, but I don't see how you can deny that the parents were clearly in the wrong.
Reply 26
Well breaking the law isnt always wrong. I dont know the full details, and if they let them get smashed they would be wrong, but if they let them have say 3 bottles of beer then I wouldnt say they were wrong, I would say that is a controlled and sensible introduction to alcohol.

They weren't that young. (16)


Two different states. They have different codes and different judges. You are simply comparing two high profile cases, and trying to draw a trend.


Sorry, thats true. Ive never posted on d+d that i can remember before. And im not used to debating, so ill probably say some silly things, sorry :smile:
Reply 27
Heartbreaker
Well breaking the law isnt always wrong. I dont know the full details, and if they let them get smashed they would be wrong, but if they let them have say 3 bottles of beer then I wouldnt say they were wrong, I would say that is a controlled and sensible introduction to alcohol.

They weren't that young. (16)

The legal drinking age is 21, so they were that young.
Reply 28
Just because its the law doesnt make it morally right or wrong.
Reply 29
Heartbreaker
Just because its the law doesnt make it morally right or wrong.


The fact that it's the law makes it illegal to violate it, and when the parents served alcohol to children significantly under the legal age, they should have thought of the possible consequences.
Heartbreaker
But hes brilliant. I find that quote quite ironic, as he too is fat stupid and rude!


I'm sure you can find ways to argue the 1st two points, but how on earth does the rude part compute? I thought the stereotype was that americans were friendly.
Heartbreaker
Well, Fat: This is a well documented fact
Stupid: Average IQ in the US is below most European countries, I can probably find a link if you don't believe me.

Edit: http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/NationalIQs.aspx


http://www.mediatransparency.org/storyprinterfriendly.php?storyID=47

"Since 1950 Americans have dominated the winning of Nobel prizes in Physics and Physiology or Medicine, and have been about equal in Chemistry. However, since 1980 Americans have won 20 Chemistry prizes while all of Europe has won 10."
That's probably because America puts more money into research than europeans do... and yes thats an unqualified claim, I'll find a source...

edit:
American firms spend around $200 billion on R&D annually

The current EU budget for R&D is €24 billion

annd american's are much more giving when it comes to giving back to their universities... see here or here which in turn helps their research...

all of which has nothing to do with whether the average american is more intelligent or not
jcoatz
That's probably because America puts more money into research than europeans do... and yes thats an unqualified claim, I'll find a source...

edit:
American firms spend around $200 billion on R&D annually

The current EU budget for R&D is €24 billion

annd american's are much more giving when it comes to giving back to their universities... see here or here which in turn helps their research...

all of which has nothing to do with whether the average american is more intelligent or not


But we do have more than enough people who have more bloody sense than Europe when it comes to recongnising that funding R&D is what moves humanity forward.
i agree completely. i'm just saying i don't think that their nobel prize count is a good way of determining the average intelligence of an american compared to a european, so it shouldn't be a factor in this arguement.
Reply 35
Bismarck
The fact that it's the law makes it illegal to violate it, and when the parents served alcohol to children significantly under the legal age, they should have thought of the possible consequences.


Bismarck- I am by no means anti-American, in fact, I actually rather like your country, so bear in mind this is not random America bashing.

I read about this story in the Times the other day, it was alongside another article about a 17 year old black guy who received (originally) 10 years for getting a blow job from a 15 year old white girl in Georgia. He was convicted under some loop-hole designed for paedeophiles, and it was argued that white boys in a similar situation had got off (thus demonstrating that there is still unquestioningly strong racism in the South).

I believe this drinking incident occurred in Virginia (I may be wrong though), which is well-known (even in this country) for being ridiculously puritannical in its attitutudes towards drink. This is a simply staggering, utterly indefensible, draconian measure. From what I read, the parents were actually being responsible because they decided to supervise the kids in order that they didn't drink and drive (which is actually quite admirable, and something that is genuinely reckless and dangerous).

But hey, it's the culture in the state isn't it. I'm just glad I don't live in Virginia.
Reply 36
I think most of you are missing the point.

A law (whether it is 'morally' right is another issue) was broken. A punishment fitting in the eyes of the law was given. There can be no possible debate.
Reply 37
I don't think we are missing the point at all. Everyone knows it was illegal, but not everyone thinks that the illegality of it is morally reasonable.
Reply 38
That's quite right. The law should seek to give create equitable remedies whether in civil or criminal law. The fact is 2 years in prison for supervising a party for 16 year olds within one's own home, with the explicit intention of preventing drink driving is completely disproportionate. It defies reasonableness and in no way presents a fair or just punishment for something that many people (certainly including myself) would not even classify as a crime.
Reply 39
When you read the actual article in the Times, it seems far worse - the mother and step-father allow their 16 year old son a party where some alcohol is served but all the car keys must be relinquished on entry so no-one can drink drive. An anonymous tip-off means at 11pm police arrive at the house, at which point the partygoers run away. The police catch 16 of them, of which nine had no trace of alcohol in their system at all and the other seven did not have enough in their system to be deemed "intoxicated".

Okay, yes she has broken the law and the prosecutor argues she should be sent to prison for the 40 days. However, the judge in his infinite wisdom decides to set an example because there had recently been a death from drink driving when a minor had crashed when under the influence, so he sentenced her to 8 years (which on appeal has been dropped to 2 years). It just seems moronic to set an example when the crime is simply not equivalent and in no way did her actions present the level of risk of helping minors get intoxicated then stick them behind the wheel of a car.

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