Scottish pupils face qualification &#x27;lottery&#x27;

OP

Original post by .Jeff458

I also sat 8 nat5 exams. Miraculously got 8A's.

I don't think you realise the workload until you compare yourself to others from different schools. But it was quite a lot now I look back.

But it does give you a great flexibility.

Currently doing the standard 5 highers. Higher Chemistry exam in about 10 hours :smile:

Well done, 7As and a C for me - damn German. Yeah I didn't think too much of it at the time either, but now I compare it to what the year below me are doing now.
Oh well good luck with that! Chemistry's not my thing, my next exam is CfE H Physics next Tuesday.

Reply 3

Scottie1058

I come from a small school (<450) and we were only ever allowed to take 6 N5s regardless of ability and 5 H (although 6 have been permitted in exceptional cases). I find this debate interesting because it is also a lottery as to what subjects you can do in my area. For instance my school doesn't have subjects such as Drama or photography and to take many of the some courses including some AH courses a, students have to go to other schools in the area or day release at the local collage. This impacts on the timetable as a whole because it means only certain subjects can be put in the 'collage' column for choices and it is likely that collage students will miss at least a period of their other higher subjects.i agree that at N5 level the number of subjects allowed to be taken should be around 6-7, although at higher level 5 subjects is quite enough in terms of work load! I think accessibility to courses should be equalised also otherwise schools might fail to engage with some students just because they live in the catchment area of a school that couldn't offer them a broad range of subjects.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 4

DougallnDougall

13

My school still does 8 Nat 5s but I believe the local state schools are down to 6. I agree 8 gives greater flexibility and scope to pick up highers in 6th year if you don't do as well in 5th as you'd have liked.

Reply 5

username1842595

I did 6 National 5's in S4 which consisted of Urdu Bio English Geography Home Economics Computing and got AAAABC however im doing 2 Nat 5's in S5 which were maths and physics because I too found it quite overwhelming :s-smilie:

doing five is definitely too less, you need to keep your options open :smile:

Reply 6

OP

I agree that the available subjects is a serious problem in a lot of schools. Rural schools usually only have the bare minimum number of teachers and resources to cover a general spread of N4/5/Hs and S1-3 BGE, although I have to say drama not being available in school is a new one to me.
I've found that the sciences, technical, computing and more vocational/practical courses are usually the worst affected as some schools can't afford the equipment and sometimes even have one teacher to cover a number of separate subjects - one teacher for all the sciences for example. I don't think that colleges should be resorted to as quickly or as frequently as they often are by schools for the courses they can't offer.
I think 6/7 qualifications during S4 is a good number, balancing a good introductory workload whilst keeping options open for later years.

Reply 7

Caecillius_99

1

Currently at my private school it is expected you do 8 national 5's, 5 highers and in S6 4 subjects ranging from advanced higher to national 5. However at public schools in my area they do 6 national 5's, 4 highers and in S6 they follow the same regime regarding the amount of subjects and standard of qualifications, overall, i think this is quite a good system of how many qualifications you can attain as it is enough to get a place at uni comfortably but is not too stressful for too many people which having 8 national 5's or 5 highers can be.

Reply 8

___Sophie___

12

I'm at a quite big state school of 1200 pupils and we do 9 national 5's which is a lot but it's manageable.
However next year's 4th years won't be doing any national 5's at all and instead will be doing 6 highers (or national 5's for the less able) over 2 years.
I personally prefer how it currently is and would not be happy if I was in the year below.

Reply 9

OP

Original post by ___Sophie___

I'm at a quite big state school of 1200 pupils and we do 9 national 5's which is a lot but it's manageable.
However next year's 4th years won't be doing any national 5's at all and instead will be doing 6 highers (or national 5's for the less able) over 2 years.
I personally prefer how it currently is and would not be happy if I was in the year below.

I've never liked the idea of doing Highers over 2 years (S4/5) as the chances of getting to the end of S5 and having no qualifications are too high for some people, and some people leave when they turn 16 (end of S4 usually) and therefore will leave with no qualifications at all. I think the equivalent N5 first then the higher is the much better way to do it, rather than going straight for the higher.
I know we all make a big deal out of how unimportant N5s are, especially compared to highers, but I feel that they are an important stepping stone. They are good as a first exam qualification, and I would not have liked my first actual exam to be a higher one.

Reply 10

___Sophie___

12

Original post by PTS_99

I've never liked the idea of doing Highers over 2 years (S4/5) as the chances of getting to the end of S5 and having no qualifications are too high for some people, and some people leave when they turn 16 (end of S4 usually) and therefore will leave with no qualifications at all. I think the equivalent N5 first then the higher is the much better way to do it, rather than going straight for the higher.
I know we all make a big deal out of how unimportant N5s are, especially compared to highers, but I feel that they are an important stepping stone. They are good as a first exam qualification, and I would not have liked my first actual exam to be a higher one.

Yeah I agree with that

Reply 11

Emmaj2000

Original post by PTS_99

I just saw this (http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/scots-pupils-face-lottery-over-number-of-exams-they-can-take-1-4129996).
Basically it highlights once again the difference in the number of qualifications sat in S4 across the country since the introduction of Curriculum for Excellance. Numbers range from 5 subjects to 8.
I did 8 exams at the end of S4 having done 8 N5s over 2 years, although this has since changed in my school as now S4s do 6/7 (can't remember which now) subjects over 1 year. S5/6 is the usual max of 5 subjects. I think that having 8 N5s by the end of S4 gives you greater flexibility in your options during S5/6 in terms of having more highers available that you wouldn't have to crash, but also it was quite overwhelming during prelims, coursework and exam season itself. Although I think only doing 5 is very limiting in your options for S5/6.
I wanted to see what other people thought of this, and how many subjects you did in S4 (or are doing now).

Im in s4 and im doing 8 N5s (7 exams as I do PE). Apparently our school is amongst the last changing to what they call the wider curriculum, which I disagree with. I believe that 8 N5s is ideal as it covers a wide range and gives you the opportunity to decide what you continue to do at higher and you can drop subjects you dont like. However, I would love to hear the opinion of those doing 6 N5s.

Reply 12

Scottie1058

Original post by Emmaj2000

Im in s4 and im doing 8 N5s (7 exams as I do PE). Apparently our school is amongst the last changing to what they call the wider curriculum, which I disagree with. I believe that 8 N5s is ideal as it covers a wide range and gives you the opportunity to decide what you continue to do at higher and you can drop subjects you dont like. However, I would love to hear the opinion of those doing 6 N5s.

I did 6, and I agree doing more would be more beneficial as it would broaden the scope in the ciriculum leading to more rounded students and a better attainment in general. But for some I know this would me an increase in the range of subjects might be called for (simply because I come from a small school with only the basic subjects in each area) or at least an increase in teaching staff (again, small school, rural area, not going to happen easily) so I know why they have scaled back. That doesn't make it fair or right, but the reason for changing from 8 to 6 is to close the attainment gap and work on giving all an equal opportunity which is fair basis...I expect that this will probably be developed on in years to come.

Reply 13

OP

Original post by Scottie1058

That doesn't make it fair or right, but the reason for changing from 8 to 6 is to close the attainment gap and work on giving all an equal opportunity which is fair basis...I expect that this will probably be developed on in years to come.

Well they haven't done very well have they? If anything this widens the attainment gap across the country. I found out the other day (from some SQA document, can't remember which one again) that because of the school I went to, I'm one of only 600-700 candidates who got 8 N5s (or Int2 - as they still ran last year) last year. Now considering 8 used to be the norm 2/3 years ago with Standard Grades this is even more unfair for those in schools that only allow 5, and even for the year below me that are doing 7.
I hope some requirement is set regarding this, I understand that the government has allowed councils to make these decisions as they "best understand their schools" (is it just me or is that comedy not politics?) but this has simply meant that they can cut spending on education.

Reply 14

Scottie1058

Original post by PTS_99

Well they haven't done very well have they? If anything this widens the attainment gap across the country. I found out the other day (from some SQA document, can't remember which one again) that because of the school I went to, I'm one of only 600-700 candidates who got 8 N5s (or Int2 - as they still ran last year) last year. Now considering 8 used to be the norm 2/3 years ago with Standard Grades this is even more unfair for those in schools that only allow 5, and even for the year below me that are doing 7.
I hope some requirement is set regarding this, I understand that the government has allowed councils to make these decisions as they "best understand their schools" (is it just me or is that comedy not politics?) but this has simply meant that they can cut spending on education.

As far as I know there was a government plan to standardise to 6 Nat 5s in the next few years and that was what I was getting at, so sorry for the confusion. But I agree it should be more to give a boarder range of choices but it would narrow the attainment gap. It was only metioned to me so I don't know whether it's true but that's what I know. Sorry again for confusion.

Reply 15

OP

Original post by Scottie1058

As far as I know there was a government plan to standardise to 6 Nat 5s in the next few years and that was what I was getting at, so sorry for the confusion. But I agree it should be more to give a boarder range of choices but it would narrow the attainment gap. It was only metioned to me so I don't know whether it's true but that's what I know. Sorry again for confusion.

Ah I see. I do believe that a standard number, or minimum, should be set by Holyrood. 6 qualifications during S4 does then allow for some flexibility in options for further qualifications in S5/6, although I still think 7 would be preferable. The problem with 7 (apart from cost to schools) is the workload placed on candidates, especially with N5s, although you could say that this prepares them for the jump to Higher. Saying that I still recognised the jump to Highers after 8 N5s...
I guess we'll have to see what John Swinney pulls out of his hat (I'm holding my hopes out I have to say) now that he's in charge of education in Scotland...

Reply 16

DougallnDougall

13

Original post by ___Sophie___

I'm at a quite big state school of 1200 pupils and we do 9 national 5's which is a lot but it's manageable.
However next year's 4th years won't be doing any national 5's at all and instead will be doing 6 highers (or national 5's for the less able) over 2 years.
I personally prefer how it currently is and would not be happy if I was in the year below.

Only the less able at my school do highers over two years but that's over 5th and 6th year. Nat 5s are good for those who prefer to leave school at 16 to go onto training programmes or apprenticeships. Not everyone wants to or is suited to academic study.

Reply 17

JM_1998

13

I started off 4th year with 8 Nat 5s - however, my abhorrence and unwillingness to complete a fully realised art folio resulted in me requesting a drop to Nat 4 for that subject haha. Main issue with Nat 5s when I did them was that my school left all of our assignment/project work to the period just before the exams, and most classes forced us to do two separate projects for both Nat 4 and Nat 5 (why? - I don't know.) However, this was reduced to 7 for the year below me, and I believe has been further reduced to 6 now.

The main concerns that arise I suppose is whether the reduction in subjects also reduces the flexibility of course choice in later years, but I believe it may actually encourage a wider spread of - and more careful - course choices for 4th year subjects. So long as English and Maths are taken as standard - then that leaves four more options for broader learning. Someone who loves science could still take all three sciences, however they also have a spare slot for another literary subject: a social science, or a language. Or furthermore perhaps a more "fun" - and I use that term loosely in connection with the following example - subject, such as Art. These kind of choices would then still leave a fairly broad subject choice for highers - if you took Nat 5 History for example, you're open to crashing Geography, Business Management, Modern Studies etc etc. Because what is important - and I feel this is more apparent, as well as, the key emphasis with CfE - is the skills you are developing and not necessarily the facts you are learning.

Personally I found 4th year to be the most overwhelming year - but I managed to come out with straight As as well as a severely damaged psyche; although I will say this prepared me well for 5th year, and I found 5 highers an absolute breeze in comparison to that torrential hell-storm of 4th year. And, having just finished 6th year and done three AHs, I can safely say it was the easiest, most relaxed year of high school haha - however, it strangely felt simultaneously the most devoid of teaching and the most full of development :lol:

Reply 18

Ethan100

15

My school has only ever had 6 Nat 5s, Having more or less is totally alien to me. Shouldn't it be equal and standard for all ?

Reply 19

OP