Cry for help- Difference between School Direct (non salaried) PGCE and PGCE via UCAS?

Hi,

Why is so much of the teaching information so vague? I want to know if there are any differences between School Direct (non salaried) PGCE and the PGCE via UCAS, which you apply for as an Individual.

I currently have an offer to gain QTS via a school direct (salaried) position, to teach secondary and A level Physics. However, I don't want to disadvantage myself in any way, in case I want to go abroad one day.

Is there a difference between the 2 types of PGCE, would it show up on my PGCE that I did it through School Direct, or would it be identical to individual applicants?

I am feeling so stressed trying to work out what I'm doing/should do. Please help, I will appreciate it! (I'm begging!)

Reply 1

Findlay6

19

...I answered this in the other thread you made, where you asked the same question.

If you can't read a table of data you're going to struggle. It clearly explained what each route offered and I even explained that there is virtually no difference.

Step 1 of 'how to be a teacher' - learn to read.

Every PGCE has to be applied for via UCAS.
Schools Direct is just an individual provider, as is Cambridge Uni, Cambridge SCITT, London Partnership SCITT...
When you write on your CV - you would state where you received your PGCE from and which schools your worked in.

Reply 2

rskotecha

OP

Original post by Findlay6

...I answered this in the other thread you made, where you asked the same question.

If you can't read a table of data you're going to struggle. It clearly explained what each route offered and I even explained that there is virtually no difference.

Step 1 of 'how to be a teacher' - learn to read.

Every PGCE has to be applied for via UCAS.
Schools Direct is just an individual provider, as is Cambridge Uni, Cambridge SCITT, London Partnership SCITT...
When you write on your CV - you would state where you received your PGCE from and which schools your worked in.

Okay, thank you for your reply. The table you mention did not/is not showing up for me, which will be the reason I haven't read it, sorry if that offended you.

Just to clarify then, the fact that I would have been through School Direct to get my PGCE would not show up on my PGCE qualification?

Thank you

Reply 3

abel.suisse

4

Original post by Findlay6

even explained that there is virtually no difference.

There could be a huge difference He is asking what's the disadvantage in case he wants to go abroad one day.

And the answer is, if you are interested in going abroad you absolutely need to get a teaching qualification (PGCE or BEdor), and simply having QTS is not enough. If you take any route granting QTS but not PGCE then you'll be stuck in England. Therefore, the SCITT will only be accepted for as long as you've taken the SCITT with PGCE route and the certificate has been awarded by a university.

I would recommend to go for the PGCE if you can afford it...

In international schools having a PGCE is also an advantage as it is a well-regarded degree, so although it is not strictly necessary it will play to your advantage, especially in any places other than those desperate to get teachers like Egypt and the likes.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 4

Angelil

19

Myth. Many countries also do not accept the PGCE (even though they should!) so it is no guarantee. QTS is the main crux of this - I would go for something that offers QTS over something that doesn't (such as an IPGCE, which, you'll notice, has PGCE in the name but no QTS).

Reply 5

abel.suisse

4

Original post by Angelil

Myth. Many countries also do not accept the PGCE (even though they should!) so it is no guarantee. QTS is the main crux of this - I would go for something that offers QTS over something that doesn't (such as an IPGCE, which, you'll notice, has PGCE in the name but no QTS).

Well, it's not. Not a myth and not to your suggestion that QTS is more relevant. In most cases you need both of course, but the PGCE already confers you that anyway. Should we check some common destinations for Britons willing to go abroad?

NSW, Australia: "To be accredited by the Board of Studies, Teaching and Educational Standards (BOSTES) to teach in a NSW school, interstate and overseas trained teachers must hold equivalent qualifications and meet the same requirements for Provisional or Conditional Accreditation as graduates of accredited NSW teaching degrees Teachers need to have completed a minimum of four years of tertiary study and have been awarded a teaching qualification (eg, a Bachelor of Education or a bachelor degree and a postgraduate teaching qualification)."

New Zealand: "If you trained as a teacher overseas through an employment-based pathway, your training may not meet the requirements for teaching in New Zealand. This applies even if you achieved Qualified Teacher Status in the United Kingdom.Employment-based pathways which don't lead to a qualification being awarded from an accredited institution (e.g. a University) cannot be assessed by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority for academic rigour and equivalence to New Zealand qualifications."

Gulf states: "The following requirements are for all public school teaching jobs in Abu Dhabi. In order to get the appropriate work permit and visa, teachers need to meet the following requirements: Native English speaking fluency; Minimum of a Bachelor’s Degree/PGCE or the equivalent; Teaching Qualification (licenced/certified to teach in home state/country); Minimum 2 years of teaching experience at the relevant level.

Switzerland: "Les demandes de reconnaissance doivent porter sur des diplômes d’enseignement émis par unehaute école, obtenus dans un État membre de l’Union européenne, au terme d’une formation pédagogique dispensée par l’État ou reconnue par l’État, et assortis d’une autorisation d’enseigner délivrée par l’État pour les degrés correspondants (en France,elle s’obtient après le «concours» et l’année de stage avec la titularisation; en Grande-Bretagne, ils’agit du «QTS» et de l’ «induction period»"

Reply 6

Angelil

19

My experience relates to France, which is a desirable destination for many Britons also. As mentioned, under EU law, they should accept the PGCE (which of course has QTS), but frequently don't, and instead require you to acquire the French equivalent (CAPES or agrégation). I'm just pointing out that what's said on paper and what actually happens in practice are frequently two different things.

You are also suggesting that QTS can never be acquired in a postgraduate capacity apart from via a PGCE, which is wrong as well, as there are indeed ways (e.g. assessment-only route). For the NZ requirements, I think the key word there is 'may' and I would hope that they deal with each case on an individual basis. Someone without a PGCE would still meet the Swiss and Gulf state requirements. University professionals in the UK have confirmed to me that QTS is the main thing that schools should look for - not necessarily PGCE. I note that you don't address my point about the IPGCE ("PGCE" in the name, and yet no QTS).

Reply 7

abel.suisse

4

Original post by Angelil

My experience relates to France, which is a desirable destination for many Britons also. As mentioned, under EU law, they should accept the PGCE (which of course has QTS), but frequently don't, and instead require you to acquire the French equivalent (CAPES or agrégation). I'm just pointing out that what's said on paper and what actually happens in practice are frequently two different things.

Huh? Of course they require you to acquire the French equivalent. All the information I posted relates to acquiring the relevant qualifications for each country with an overseas qualification. You cannot teach anywhere with your British qualifications alone unless you go to international schools.

Original post by Angelil

You are also suggesting that QTS can never be acquired in a postgraduate capacity apart from via a PGCE

I am not.

Original post by Angelil

which is wrong as well, as there are indeed ways (e.g. assessment-only route). For the NZ requirements, I think the key word there is 'may' and I would hope that they deal with each case on an individual basis. Someone without a PGCE would still meet the Swiss and Gulf state requirements. University professionals in the UK have confirmed to me that QTS is the main thing that schools should look for - not necessarily PGCE. I note that you don't address my point about the IPGCE ("PGCE" in the name, and yet no QTS).

Uhm I understand that you might not be fully fluent in French but "Minimum of a Bachelor’s Degree/PGCE or the equivalent" seems quite clear to me, or in the case of NZ "Employment-based pathways which don't lead to a qualification being awarded from an accredited institution (e.g. a University) cannot be assessed by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority".... sorry mate, you are wrong. End of the story.

The fact is that you said that having a PGCE vs obtaining only QTS status was not an issue as it was a myth. I speak as someone having lived in Switzerland and being involved with international schools.

It's funny that you mention again the IPGCE, I didn't mention that because i thought it was obvious. If you check the case of NSW you'd see that in fact going the route of the IPGCE would be more useful than having plain QTS, as they only require having a teacher qualification and a relevant tertiary study.

So, answering again the OP and ending my participation in here, rskotecha the choice between SD PGCE or PGCE is not important if your aim is to move abroad, but be aware that going any other route that does not confer you a PGCE would be a bad idea.

Reply 8

Powersymphonia

20

Original post by rskotecha

Hi,

Why is so much of the teaching information so vague? I want to know if there are any differences between School Direct (non salaried) PGCE and the PGCE via UCAS, which you apply for as an Individual.

I currently have an offer to gain QTS via a school direct (salaried) position, to teach secondary and A level Physics. However, I don't want to disadvantage myself in any way, in case I want to go abroad one day.

Is there a difference between the 2 types of PGCE, would it show up on my PGCE that I did it through School Direct, or would it be identical to individual applicants?

I am feeling so stressed trying to work out what I'm doing/should do. Please help, I will appreciate it! (I'm begging!)

You have been given some misinformation from certain individuals.

First of all the School Direct programme often includes a PGCE alongside your training as schools which sign up to the scheme are known as training schools. The school will have a partnership with a higher education provider, which is usually a local university. The School Direct (Salaried) is by far the best outcome you could possibly achieve. Not only are the school going to fund your training, but you will also be paid a wage, however this is taxable and you are not entitled to a bursary.

The alternative is to do the School Direct non salaried, now you can get a bursary of up to £25,000 depending on your degree classification, but you then have to pay tuition fees of up to £9000 by taking it out of your bursary or applying for a tuition fee loan. You can also get a maintenance grant but you have to pay back this money at 9% of any income you earn over £21,000

The School Direct salaried means that you do not need to take out any loans!