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Should I study International Relations at Aberystwyth?

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Reply 60

Socrates

Sussex is also a handy choice for IR

Reply 61

Wise One

tom391

Understandably. Aber may have a top-notch department, but you wouldn't really know that from it's undergraduate intake. If the offer for IR at Aber is BBC, then even those students are not going to top flight, snobbish though that sounds. For postgrad, Aber may be a very good choice, but for your purposes, I would seriously recommend going elsewhere.

It does sound snobbish.

In Aberystwyth's case, IR entry requirements are low because - as a whole - the university is small, obscure, and the middle of nowhere. Not because it's bad for IR, because it isn't.

Reply 62

tenjon

Wise One

Erm, did I say it was bad for IR? No, I said the opposite.

What I said was that with entrance requirement of BBC, no matter what reasons why, it means that other universities will have more intellectual discussion among peer groups, and more able peer groups.

Reply 63

Wise One

tom391

What I said was that with entrance requirement of BBC, no matter what reasons why, it means that other universities will have more intellectual discussion among peer groups, and more able peer groups.

If you equate the hoop-jumping of A-levels with well-rounded critical intelligence, curiosity and originality, then I suppose that follows.

Me, not so much.

Reply 64

tenjon

Wise One

If you equate the hoop-jumping of A-levels with well-rounded critical intelligence, curiosity and originality, then I suppose that follows.

Me, not so much.

No, you are right, having good A level grades does not mean that you are intelligent, as for the most part (but not entirely) there is a lot of hoop-jumping involved. However, all this means is that intelligent people have even less excuse for doing badly.

A Levels are a far from perfect measure of intelligence, but they are the best we have to go on; and they are how universities choose their students. I don't see there being much controversial in the statement that 50 IR students who all have AAA are going to be a more curious, original and 'intellgient' group than 50 students who got BBC.

Reply 65

Wise One

tom391

I don't know. I think that many of the trappings of intelligence cannot be measured by A-level results, and don't even necessarily correlate with the 'mainstream' conception of academic intelligence.

I'd rather be in a yeargroup who were enthusiastic about the subject, and not afraid to question consensus. Those who see their intelligence and academic achievements as a core part of their identity have far more to lose by swimming against the tide.

But, yes, I do take your point. I just think it's a tad simplistic.

Reply 66

Socrates

Just a side point, A Level grade requirements are linked with demand, and not necessarily excellence in department. The History department at SOAS is excellent, but due to its specialism, the demand isn't that high, and the typical offer is BCC.

Reply 67

tenjon

Wise One

But, yes, I do take your point. I just think it's a tad simplistic.

Agreed.

Soc

I think that's a given, and is the exact premise that I have been arguing upon; it's perfectly possible (as Aber and SOAS show) to have a very good department, but comparatively low (BBC) undergraduate entry criteria.

Reply 68

olabelle

Apparently Aberystwyth can have a boring student life as it's such a small place. I got offered to do a scholarship exam for there and although I'd probably make it, this place seems too boring to me.

Reply 69

Tory Dan

olabelle

Nonsense!

Because its a smaller place people are more friendlier and people know your name, speak to people who have been there its far from boring. Just because its in the middle of no where doesn't mean theres nothing to do.

Reply 70

olabelle

Well my boyfriend used to study there and really disliked it when it came to that. I'm not even saying everyone thinks like this. It depends what type of person you are, really. Some enjoy places where everyone knows everyone, others don't. :wink:

After staying there for a few days last year, I decided that it's too small for myself.

Reply 71

DarK LinK

olabelle

Total rubbish. It's the complete opposite.

http://www.aber.ac.uk/en/visitor/student-satisfaction-new.php

Reply 72

koso__man

Im doing International Politics instead of International Relations at Aber. I was always led to believe that Aber was renowned for its Politics department and for their international politics course.
The main reason i chose Aber was due to this, now slightly concerned that its not international politics theyre known for but, IR!

Thank God i took a gap year!

Reply 73

r6mile

at aber all the degrees in the interpol department require the same courses the first year, so you could switch at the end of your first year if u wanted

Reply 74

Wise One

koso__man

It's the same department!

Reply 75

the21st centuary

i am VERRRY CURIOUS myself. i want to study politics with law at SOAS, Sussex, queen Mary Aston and have ONLY put Aberystwyth as my insurance choice as it asks for BBC. how does that merit it as an amazin politics university

Reply 76

Kitty Pimms

the21st centuary

*Sigh* This is a very old thread...

Here's my standard speech on the matter:

Entry requirements reflect supply and demand, not the strength of the department. The applicant ratio is often artificially depressed by a large department with many undergraduate places (which Aber has) and resultantly in order to match that oversupply of places with demand they set their requirements relatively low.

That does not mean that a) the majority of their students will have BBC (I would suggest the opposite - to know how good Aber is a student will have to have done their research, which suggests initiative and an aptitude for study) or that b) low entry requirements are indicative of a 'bad' faculty (you know yourself Aber is excellent; but as a rule academics could not give a flying you-know-what about the standards of their undergrad intake, the two simply do not intersect).

To equate a BBC entry requirement with the overall 'standard' of the university further suggests that A-level marks are an acurate proxy for intelligence, which they aren't. I know people with BBC who've gotten firsts and those with AAA who've come out with 2.2s in politics. Those with AAA are more likely to do well; but the reverse is not true (that doing badly at A level implies an inability to conduct degree-level study). The two systems - A level and university - are so very different that people often find themselves far more suited to continuous assessment and flexible thinking than parrot learning; and as a consequence do very well.

Finally, A levels aren't a determinant of a good student. I find that in politics and IR good seminar groups are dependant on fierce debate and vibrant interest in the subject, not good grades. In fact, you can happily achieve a 2.1 by something dull. Those who do well - and to be fair, badly - take risks, and that's what makes for interesting seminars. There's no reason why interested, risk-taking individuals are likely to have done well at A levels, necessarily. They may have done, of course, but getting BBC is no indication that someone is boring, stupid and uninterested. All you can talk about is aggregate likelihoods, not the individual. And politics tends to be crammed with individuals. :smile:

QED!

Reply 77

Lockhart

tenjon

Ive studied at Aber for 2 years and whilst i have my problems with the student enviroment as a whole the department is fantastic.

Firstly about peer groups, the quality of student at Aber despite the low entrance grades is high, just because you have a BBC or so doesnt necessarily mean you are an intellectual slouch. You will generally have more problems with apathetic politics students rather than ones who are not 'capable' so to speak. This is even the same at 'better' universities such as Cambridge where my friend routinely complained about the lack of social engagement with the subject.

What can be said though is it is about how you the individual approach the course matter, Aber politics isnt particularly 'difficult' and if you want to coast for 3 years you can. However if you really get into it you have an incredible level of resources around you to engage with

What you get compared to some of the more 'glamorous' unis is the fact you can have the time of the very best in IR, In my first year I was taught by Andrew Linklater (Top guy) and despite there were 200 in an introductory lecture he knew me by name and would ask about how I was dealing with the work. In fact most of the big cheese academics (Linklater, Booth, Wheeler, etc) you would probably encounter as an undergrad and are perfectly willing if not eager to engage with undergrads.

Furthermore LSE, Oxford, etc have their top IR/Pol academics at Aber pretty much every other week, so its not as if Aber is in a bubble, and the EH Carr lecture attracts the very best academics as well (John Mersheimer held it a few years back)

One criticism which can be levelled at the dept(Which I have on many occassions) is the absence of Political Economy modules, however if you are looking at Development, War Studies or Political Theory you are well stocked. Aside from that there is a greater variety of modules than at most IR/Pol depts. I took Critical Theory, History of Propaganda, Political leadership and Latin American Studies last year, a mix which you probably wouldnt get at most depts.

In short if you can take the small town living, and you really like Politics then Aber is highly recommended

Reply 78

depoets

I know this is an old topic, but I needed to reply. I cannot believe that someone with a BA in IR had never heard of Aber. That says something about your degree, honestly.

Ian Clark teaches undergraduate corses, I just checked at the Uni website. Aber is famous, it was the first International Politics department in the world and is still one of the biggest. USA has a very different approach to IR thinking than Europe, but I didn't know they COMPLETELY ignored European tradition in IR. That's why I didn't go to USA, and thank God. One CANNOT deny that Aberystwyth University IS one of the biggest IR departments in the world (there is NO such thing as THE best department, ok?).

I'd say LSE for postgraduate, not undergraduate. And, obviously, DO NOT go to USA... haha