Schrodinger's Cat

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Reply 20

PossiblyNotGod

This only makes sense for a cat at the quantum scale. Would be cute AF though.

Reply 21

Dalek1099

Original post by XOR_

This only makes sense for a cat at the quantum scale. Would be cute AF though.

The cat's fate is affected by a quantum particle so the cat should be both dead and alive, assuming it can't observe itself.If the cat is observing it will be either alive or dead.

You shouldn't really use your intuition in Quantum Mechanics as it simply doesn't work I think its due to reasons I've said in your mind you are effectively observing and opening the box.

Reply 22

john2054

Original post by Dalek1099

The cat is either alive or dead. It cannot be both. However, statistically speaking, all other things being equal the cat is exacly .5 alive and .5 dead. Until you open the box, at which point it has to decide one way or the other.

I hope this has been some help. And yes these principles do apply to quantum mechanics as well. I would recommend watching 'what the bleep down the rabbit hole' if you want further clarification over this and related matters!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Bleep-Down-Rabbit-Hole/dp/B000GPPPYA/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1464819393&sr=1-2&keywords=what+the+bleep+do+we+know

Reply 23

imagoat

I wouldn't worry too much about this , the entire example was made up to essentially mock the scientists who believed in the copehagen (two states idea) interpretation of quantum mechanics!

Reply 24

Dalek1099

Original post by john2054

http://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/12287-physicists-prove-that-schrodinger-s-cat-is-both-dead-and-alive

The cat is both dead and alive there is a lot of confusion about this topic as Physicists initially agreed that surely the cat should be either dead or alive and this was evidence against Quantum Mechanics at the time but as experiments have shown the successful predictions of Quantum Mechanics as being correct they have changed their mind and realised the cat is both dead and alive.

The mistake the Physicists made initially was using their intuition they assumed by common sense that it must be either dead or alive but by common sense both Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity wouldn't exist.Common sense in Physics is called Classical Mechanics and so far it has been proven wrong on a lot of the more theoretical subjects.If there is one thing you should learn from a first year University Physics course don't dare justify your arguments using intuition(in fact this applies sometimes to Mathematics) you really want to use Mathematics to prove what you are saying.

There is nothing actually wrong with the cat being both dead and alive as we have no experience of the non conscious world affected by quantum states.

Reply 25

Dalek1099

Original post by imagoat

I wouldn't worry too much about this , the entire example was made up to essentially mock the scientists who believed in the copehagen (two states idea) interpretation of quantum mechanics!

Yes this is exactly the point and Physicists thought that Quantum Mechanics must be ludicrous at the time but they had to change their minds when experiments confirmed the predictions of Quantum Mechanics.

Here is also a funny idea about what people with the experience of the unconscious world might say about the conscious world(makes little sense as they couldn't be conscious in such a world but it might illustrate concepts) "How can the cat be either dead or alive?, Why would the particle choose one state over another?Surely it would be both states at once as both are possible and thus it is ludicrous that the cat is either dead or alive it must be both dead and alive."

Reply 26

john2054

Original post by Dalek1099

Yes i agree. Have you heard of the double slit experiement, where two slits of proton particles are shot through a barrier, and the results reveal that when recorded in isolation, the particles can appear anywhere, however when taken as a stream, they appear to have some congruity to them. As if the journeys of the particles can be everywhere at once, before reaching the destination point. Have you heard of that one?

Reply 27

bluebookie

I must be pretty stewpid then,

I couldn't even process what,..I was reading. Man, I thought I had a basic grasping of the concept but apparently not.
I can't speak physics,

Reply 28

Nayzar

Mindblown. I have no idea what I just read

Reply 29

Ollie231213

Original post by Dalek1099

This is wrong if this was true it would contradict Quantum Mechanics.Schrodinger was trying to explain why he thought Quantum Mechanics was wrong but experimental evidence has shown Quantum Mechanics to work very well and thus we must conclude the logic of Quantum Mechanics is correct and the cat is thus both dead and alive(assuming it can't observe things).

No, he was trying to demonstrate why a certain INTERPRETATION of quantum mechanics is wrong, not that quantum mechanics itself is wrong. It was Schrodinger who came up with the fundamental equation that describes quantum mechanical behaviour (now called the Schrodinger equation).

And while it is true that experimental evidence does indeed suggest that that matter behaves in a way that would leave the cat both alive and dead, we also can't simply conclude that the cat is indeed both alive and dead because that would violate the common sense principle that a living creature can not exist in both states at the same time!

Reply 30

Dalek1099

Original post by john2054

Yeh I've heard of the double slit experiment.Its usually thought off with the electron where you get a full diffraction pattern meaning the electron must have been everywhere at once.If you then measure which slit the electron goes through you then get no diffraction pattern.

The single slit experiment where you detect each photon is the basis for the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle where we conclude that a photon can have no definite position or momentum before being detected.

Reply 31

Dalek1099

Original post by Ollie231213

I posted a link showing that Physicists have actually proved the cat will be both dead and alive even if the box is cut in half.

The common sense principle doesn't apply to Quantum Mechanics the problem is I have no experience of a living creatures's life or death being dependent on the state of a quantum particle so my common sense is invalid for this situation.
Our everyday experience is of cats not being dependent on the state of a quantum particle thats the difference.

The fact an electron can go through both slits at once and the fact that the cat is both dead and alive are the same contradiction to our normal intuition.

Reply 32

john2054

Original post by Dalek1099

Very interesting huh? But if you watch that rabbit hole video i referenced earlier, you will see that a formerly apparently inanimate object such as water, can actually be shown to have beautiful patterns, and flow, when photographed under a microscope, given different emotional contexts. Which is yet another argument for the idea that life, does exist beyond the human soul.

Another interesting point i picked up from that film, was the idea that human dna is in a constantly changing state of flux. Again when you measure it, it does obey the rules/laws, however it's state is actually fluid like water. I also find this very interesting. It is very much about opening your mind, isn't it?

Reply 33

Dalek1099

Original post by john2054

Here is another thought if when you sleep tonight whether you live or die depends on a quantum particle in your body then you will both be alive and dead(I'm assuming you'll probably be alive in the morning so maybe 99% alive and 1% dead).This isn't an issue because noone is observing once a doctor observes to check or you wake up you will then be alive or dead.If you die the doctor will then right in his report you died at whatever time and then that will be the case as it doesn't make sense for it not to be.Its kinda of like Quantum Mechanics works to ensure observers aren't too baffled when they open the box but when noone is around then the particles can do what they want(which is to be in both states at once).