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TSR's Big EU Referendum Debate

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TSR's new app is coming! Sign up here to try it first >> 17-10-2016

    (Original post by Davij038)
    I'm not moaning- but I do think leave has an unfair advantage.

    Two of the leave panel are in their late twenties whilst most of the remain panel are barely 18 iirc.

    L i b

    Any of you guys free for this?
    No such luck, I'm afraid. Was on a flight when this was happening.

    (Original post by L i b)
    No such luck, I'm afraid. Was on a flight when this was happening.
    Flying back from Brussels no doubt

    No worries mate

    (Original post by Davij038)
    Flying back from Brussels no doubt
    Just receiving my orders.

    Remain so we can live anywhere we want within the eu with no visa or length of stay condition.

    For anyone who missed TSR's Big EU Referendum - The Panel Debate, here are the main points raised on behalf of #VoteLeave:

    #VoteLeave: UK Finances
    As a committed Europhile (in the true sense of the word) I feel a strong sense of fraternity with our continental cousins, and as someone who has lived on the continent know Europe to be a fantastic place – steeped in rich culture, history, and heritage, and (ordinarily) abound with opportunities. As a learned social scientist, and someone who has dedicated himself to exploring/debating the EU in some detail, I also feel a sense of foreboding about our continued membership of the ailing institution, however:

    • UK payments to the EU (£13bn p.a.) constitute 20% of the budget deficit, of which only a third comes back – with strings attached | FFT
    • Net fiscal contribution of EEA migrants is +/- £2bn, or 0.25% of public expenditure i.e. impact of EU migration is small either way | MW
    • One of Project Fear’s many threats is that #Brexit will see house prices fall by 20%, according to the Chancellor. Yes please, Mr. Osborne! | GDN

    • The way the EU has briefed against, bullied, and corralled, countries like Greece and Ireland is nothing short of scandalous | REU
    • UK already bailed out Eurozone (£20bn) sadly on the brink of another crisis – one that will cost us all dearly/probably be terminal for the EU | FT
    • Big business is using the ECJ to claw back billions of pounds of historic tax revenues. Remaining is about social solidarity and sustainability? | DM

    • UK fishing receives just 21% of the funds that the EU sends to the Spanish, who pay in far less, and fish (our waters) far more | EUR
    • EU Common Fisheries Policy has cost an estimated 115,000 jobs, decimating British fishing/significantly degrading proud maritime history | TYO
    • CAP takes up half of EU budget, 80% goes to 25% of farmers, it’s wasteful, and harms farmers outside EU e.g. food dumping | EUR

    #VoteLeave: UK Trade
    It is impossible to be completely clear as to the precise impact of Brexit on trade; that is, except to say that when it comes to International Political Economy, and the quality of our diplomatic/economic personnel and institutions, the UK is very well placed to minimise related turbulence, and that - contrary to what the media has been telling us - there are plenty of respected Economists who have conducted detailed analyses and concluded that leaving would be in our economic interests e.g. Professors Minford and Congdon, Economists For Brexit, and Capital Economics

    • We are the 5th largest economy in the world, and are forecast to leapfrog Germany and Japan within a generation | TMS
    • Unlike Switzerland/Norway, we run a sizeable trade deficit with the EU (£120bn worth of goods) and are the biggest importer of EU goods | NIE
    • Top exporters to the EU: China, USA, etc trade rather freely, and prosperously, in the absence of membership of the customs union | EUR

    #VoteLeave: Free Movement
    • Effect of free movement is effectively to drive down wages/employment T&Cs at the bottom, and to drive up bankers' bonuses at the top | GDN
    • The best and brightest Europeans have been emigrating en masse, worsening spatial deprivation by inflicting a 'brain drain' on the periphery
    • Our National Living Wage, whilst laudable, will further incentivise millions to travel to the UK, when income disparities are already huge

    • The sheer number, mobility, and patchy levels of integration of migrants is irrefutably causing societal friction and pressure on public services
    • It's clear that it has become increasingly difficult to secure affordable/social housing due, in large part, to related demand-side pressure | HSG
    • Roughly 50% of EU migrants return home within a decade but this churning thematic is linked to low English learning/integration | UoR

    • EU’s European Court of Justice (ECJ) arbitrarily prevents barring/deportation of convicted criminals, terrorists, and unemployed migrants | BBC
    The Migrant Crisis is a shambles and the EU intends to fine member states a €250,000 per asylum seeker they refuse entry | BBC
    • Relatively unvetted non-EU migrants are being given EU residency/citizenship. We are unable to bar their entry, despite ISIS threat | REU[/spoiler]

    #VoteLeave: Political/Legislative Issues
    • Jean Monnet (founding father of the EU): 'Common market will lead to unity and produce political union which is the goal' | NWE
    • President Jean Claude Juncker: "There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties" | BBC

    • Democratically elected Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) cannot propose, initiate, or even repeal legislation | EUR
    • We are 1 voice in 28 (soon to be 35), and have only a tiny share (13%) of the all important EU Council of Ministers vote vs. "at top table" | FFT

    • A federalised United States of Europe and EU armed forces are very real prospects a la: 'ever closer union' and 'common defence' | EUR
    • The bulk of UK law is already heavily influenced by EU law - which is supreme, at any rate. Political unification will mean total submission | HoC

    • Surreptitious global (crony) capitalist deals like TTIP will eventually get passed vs. consumer/privacy/environmental standards and GovT sued | ZH
    • No control over massive EU migration has led to GovT squeezing other migrants, which is both iniquitous and to the detriment of our nation | GDN

    #VoteLeave: The Future EU
    • Ours is the first exit-referendum that the powers that be have failed to prevent in the 23 years the EU has technically been in existence
    • There is no appetite, need, or incentive for the EU to reform itself and if we remain in then the reform agenda will be completely dead and buried
    • Crippling effects of Eurozone suffocation and EU austerity on (youth) unemployment and welfare mean most Europeans are desperate for reform | EUR
    • Greece tried to use Democracy to effect change with a referendum; the EU rejected the will of the people and instigated regime change! | ZH

    • Switzerland will not be sharing the security woes of the EU, having opted out of free movement (2014) and withdrawn EU application last week | DM
    • EU Com has agreed to award people travelling from Turkey visa free travel and essentially committed to fast-tracking Turkish membership | BBC
    • Other Eastern nations are also earmarked for accession - Bosnia, 'The Cradle of Modern Jihadism', recently submitted it's application | BBC
    • Cameron has stated that he wants these countries to join, and repeatedly refused to commit to vetoing Turkish membership on QT | BBC

    #VoteLeave: #BeLeave in Britain!

    • We regain control of our rights, borders, waters (fishing), waterways (reduce flood risk), transport, and can slash red tape
    • We end EU institutional supremacy, retake our seat at the Word Trade Organisation (WTO), and are free to spend our money on our priorities
    • We are free to foster a healthy new cooperative, free trade relationship with our European partners and meritocratic immigration
    • We set the scene for EU reform and can always mirror progressive EU trends in a way that suits our culture, society, and economy

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