I started leaving my degree off of job applications

OP

Original post by threeportdrift

It's not to do with your degree, if you are only converting 1 in 100 to interview, it's the quality of your application writing. You are probably writing an overly complex CV (too much focus on pretty formatting) and not enough on giving evidence of relevant skills. In other words, you are telling the reader what you want to say about yourself, rather than what they want to know about you (which is only that you have the relevant skills for the job).

If you are applying for jobs you can really do, and you are writing well tailored applications, you should be able to convert 1 or 2 in 10 to interviews.

Universities ask for graduates for even the most basic, non-graduate roles, they have a bias quite the other way than you suggest.

You'd think that right? I mean they're supposed to be advocates for education. But it's not the case, honestly. And my applications are fine. Dunno where you got the weird info in your first paragraph, seems oddly specific considering you haven't read any of them. I don't think it's a coincidence that I apply for 100 jobs I'm interested in and only get one interview, and then apply for 5 in the space of a week with my degree left off and get three interviews. Maybe it is just weirdly unlucky, but it seems kinda doubtful to be honest!

I did speak to the careers office at my uni who suggested I try some applications without my degree. :frown:

I don't know why that's the case, and it actually makes me pretty angry, but if someone else is having the same trouble (i.e. significant work experience outwith your degree that makes you qualified enough for certain jobs), maybe you should try leaving out your degree!

Original post by LannaBanana

You'd think that right? I mean they're supposed to be advocates for education. But it's not the case, honestly.

Well I've been responsible for hiring staff in 3 different universities, and in every case, the default template for job descriptions included educated to first degree level, and many managers didn't think about it and didn't take it out when it wasn't necessary. Many, many junior administrators had much stronger academic qualifications that a junior administrator anywhere else.

Original post by LannaBanana

And my applications are fine. Dunno where you got the weird info in your first paragraph, seems oddly specific considering you haven't read any of them.

Because I've read thousands here on TSR and many more in the course of my profession, where I regularly hold recruitments for anyone from cleaners and drivers to VCs of universities. This is what I do!

I'm afraid your applications aren't 'fine' because they aren't getting you to interview. The application is 100% of what the employer is making their judgement on, and you aren't being successful in getting yourself into the top 6 applicants (the max they can interview in a day, which is all the time they'll give to it). You either simply don't have enough evidence of relevant skills (unlikely if you are applying for entry level jobs and have prior work experience) or you aren't presenting that information in a convincing enough way for the employer.

Original post by LannaBanana

I don't think it's a coincidence that I apply for 100 jobs I'm interested in and only get one interview, and then apply for 5 in the space of a week with my degree left off and get three interviews. Maybe it is just weirdly unlucky, but it seems kinda doubtful to be honest!

Quite possibly because you are an English Lit graduate and regardless of presentation and content, you can write quite fluently, so for a non-grad, you can get some sort of message across. Whereas employers expect a higher standard from a grad (and may want it, they always employ the best, even if the applicant has qualifications they don't need/want), and then your applications are comparatively weak.

More likely, you've simply applied to roles that have had less competition or are more desperate.

Original post by LannaBanana

I did speak to the careers office at my uni who suggested I try some applications without my degree. :frown:

I don't know why that's the case, and it actually makes me pretty angry,

I'd have noted the time and date and name of the person I spoke to and then written to the VC and asked for my fees back!

Reply 4

Colinj451

13

It could also be that dropping the degree from your CV actually then made your employable skills more visible?
If your degree takes up the first half page and there isn't much else that stands out then it could be why it failed.
Once that's removed then your transferable skills might show up

Reply 5

OP

Original post by threeportdrift

...

None of the jobs at universities I've applied for have asked for a degree. Normally it's educated to HND level in administration or similar, or Higher English, or at least 2 years relevant work experience. I've worked in a university and a college before, and hardly any of the people I worked with were educated to degree level. I get how weird this is, what I'm saying. I didn't want to believe it was the problem, but it was getting to the stage where I was spending 45 minutes to an hour on every application, tailoring it EXACTLY to the specifications, asking my previous boss (who hired me to work for the university!) to look over the applications and she said they were fine?! No offense to you, I'm sure you do a fab job and maybe if I applied to your institution I would get an interview! But 60+ decent applications and only one interview has pissed me off. However, none of the jobs I left my degree off of when applying that I got interviews for were higher ed. institutions because I got so tired of applying for them and getting nothing but rejections.

Maybe I'm just super unlucky?! But having a degree, 5ish years of admin-based experience, and well-written applications (according to my previous boss and the fact that I've been applying for jobs for 9 years and never had this much of a problem) you'd think I'd get further than dozens of rejection emails.

I'm not pretending that I know everything and that my applications are flawless, but I've spoken to a few people about them and had people read them over (and you have not) and I really don't believe they're the problem. Like you said, as an English graduate, I'm a decent writer - this doesn't just mean I can write in a nice style or whatever. It means I can write about the stuff that needs to be said, I do tell the employers what I can bring to the job, I don't waffle on about irrelevant information like the fact that I like reading books or petting my rabbit, you know?

There are some jobs that I really wish I'd left my degree info off of, because I really wanted them and put so much effort into the applications, showing my enthusiasm for the position, highlighting my relevant experience, and I get nothing. (Not all of these are higher ed, but places like libraries, or creative companies).

Anyways, you said you've read loads of applications on TSR... is there a place people can post them for feedback or something? I have an interview that I really hope goes well on Wednesday and I have loads to prepare for it, but if I don't get it, I would actually really appreciate feedback for any other jobs I'm applying for. If you really don't think it's my degree, then I guess something must've been overlooked somewhere in the way I'm presenting myself.

Phew sorry for the rant, it's been infuriating the past couple months to have people (parents etc) think that the reason I'm not getting interviews is because I'm not trying hard enough or applying to enough places or writing good applications.

/ends rant

/sobs

Reply 6

OP

Original post by Colinj451

It could also be that dropping the degree from your CV actually then made your employable skills more visible?
If your degree takes up the first half page and there isn't much else that stands out then it could be why it failed.
Once that's removed then your transferable skills might show up

I don't think so because I basically only had one sentence about my degree in most of the applications (because it just wasn't relevant to discuss modules or essays or anything like that). It's usually something like "I am about to graduate with a first class honours degree in English from the University of XXXXX, which has equipped me with a variety of transferrable skills including attention to detail, good written communication, the ability to effectively manage my workload, an aptitude for research and self-teaching, and the capability to work independently."

The majority of my application focuses on the experience I've had as it relates to the job - if it's an administrative role, I talk about the admin roles I've had, what I did, what I've learned from that, the skills it's equipped me with. If it's a job in a library, I talk about the libraries I've worked in (two as an assistant, worked in the uni library as shelver), the programs I've worked with, familiarity with catalogues/referencing, etc etc.

Reply 7

username738914

Original post by LannaBanana

None of the jobs at universities I've applied for have asked for a degree. Normally it's educated to HND level in administration or similar, or Higher English, or at least 2 years relevant work experience. I've worked in a university and a college before, and hardly any of the people I worked with were educated to degree level. I get how weird this is, what I'm saying. I didn't want to believe it was the problem, but it was getting to the stage where I was spending 45 minutes to an hour on every application, tailoring it EXACTLY to the specifications, asking my previous boss (who hired me to work for the university!) to look over the applications and she said they were fine?! No offense to you, I'm sure you do a fab job and maybe if I applied to your institution I would get an interview! But 60+ decent applications and only one interview has pissed me off. However, none of the jobs I left my degree off of when applying that I got interviews for were higher ed. institutions because I got so tired of applying for them and getting nothing but rejections.

Maybe I'm just super unlucky?! But having a degree, 5ish years of admin-based experience, and well-written applications (according to my previous boss and the fact that I've been applying for jobs for 9 years and never had this much of a problem) you'd think I'd get further than dozens of rejection emails.

I'm not pretending that I know everything and that my applications are flawless, but I've spoken to a few people about them and had people read them over (and you have not) and I really don't believe they're the problem. Like you said, as an English graduate, I'm a decent writer - this doesn't just mean I can write in a nice style or whatever. It means I can write about the stuff that needs to be said, I do tell the employers what I can bring to the job, I don't waffle on about irrelevant information like the fact that I like reading books or petting my rabbit, you know?

There are some jobs that I really wish I'd left my degree info off of, because I really wanted them and put so much effort into the applications, showing my enthusiasm for the position, highlighting my relevant experience, and I get nothing. (Not all of these are higher ed, but places like libraries, or creative companies).

Anyways, you said you've read loads of applications on TSR... is there a place people can post them for feedback or something? I have an interview that I really hope goes well on Wednesday and I have loads to prepare for it, but if I don't get it, I would actually really appreciate feedback for any other jobs I'm applying for. If you really don't think it's my degree, then I guess something must've been overlooked somewhere in the way I'm presenting myself.

Phew sorry for the rant, it's been infuriating the past couple months to have people (parents etc) think that the reason I'm not getting interviews is because I'm not trying hard enough or applying to enough places or writing good applications.

/ends rant

/sobs

There's a CV feedback forum on this site, do a search.

Also, I really would just keep plugging in. 100 applications isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. Have you done any networking? Putting your face in front of potential employers?

Maybe you also need to be more focused in your job search.

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Reply 8

Klix88

17

I've been applying for jobs for 9 years

According to your profile, you're 25 years old. So you definitely don't have 9 years' experience of applying for full-time professional roles. Is it possible that this kind of semi-truthful 'inflation' is creeping into the things you're adding to your CV or your covering letters? As someone who has also been involved in recruitment during my pre-uni life, such things are easier to spot in an application than you might think.

Reply 9

OP

Original post by Klix88

According to your profile, you're 25 years old. So you definitely don't have 9 years' experience of applying for full-time professional roles. Is it possible that this kind of semi-truthful 'inflation' is creeping into the things you're adding to your CV or your covering letters? As someone who has also been involved in recruitment during my pre-uni life, such things are easier to spot in an application than you might think.

I didn't say I'd been applying for full-time professional roles, only that I've been applying for jobs that required an application (i.e. not nipping into a shop that has an advert on the window). I started working for the council when I was 16...

Reply 10

OP

Original post by Princepieman

There's a CV feedback forum on this site, do a search.

Also, I really would just keep plugging in. 100 applications isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. Have you done any networking? Putting your face in front of potential employers?

Maybe you also need to be more focused in your job search.

Posted from TSR Mobile

100 applications isn't much?! Maybe I've been spoiled before, I seriously don't think I've applied for more than 10 jobs without getting an interview! :frown:

It's actually really crushing my confidence and I hate having no money. Do you really think 100 applications isn't so bad? None of my friends who did English seem to be applying for jobs now so I'm not sure how it is for other people.

Reply 11

Klix88

17

Original post by LannaBanana

I didn't say I'd been applying for full-time professional roles, only that I've been applying for jobs that required an application (i.e. not nipping into a shop that has an advert on the window). I started working for the council when I was 16...

That's exactly what I mean - you implied it. You told us "I've been applying for jobs for 9 years " and then left the reader to either believe it, or to discover that it wasn't quite that straightforward. This type of thing can jump out of a job application. You need to be aware that you could be shooting yourself in the foot if you try to make your work background sound more comprehensive than it actually is. Drawing attention to actual professional skills and experience is vital. Presenting them as something that they aren't, will sabotage your application.

The fact that you have been working since you were 16 will be a big positive on its own and speaks volumes about your motivation to a prospective employer. There's no need to over-egg the pudding.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 12

username944192

Original post by LannaBanana

And actually finally got some interviews.

For background: I'm an English Lit graduate, so I haven't gone down the 'career degree' route, so this won't apply to law students wanting to become lawyers, medical students wanting to become doctors, etc etc. When I say I'm an English Lit grad, I am literally graduating top of my class with a first class degree. I also have a few years of temp work in offices/customer services that I THOUGHT made me a competitive candidate.

I have applied for ~100 jobs (mostly admin jobs in universities and creative industries so it's not like I was applying for Burger King) since April. Got one interview, didn't get the job. I applied for five jobs two weeks ago and left my degree off of the application - I got interviews for three of them.

I'd been wondering if people were considering me 'overqualified' but refused to believe it because I'm an ENGLISH graduate, not a mechanical engineer or something specialised, you know?

Anyways, this is a heads up for other people in my position who might have a good bit of work experience behind them and who are just looking for a decent, comfy, 9-5 job that doesn't explicitly require a degree: seriously, just leave it off, there must be a bin labelled 'graduates' that they chuck your application into as soon as you send it.

I think you're better off leaving it on your CV to be honest. How else are you explaining that 3 year gap anyway? It sounds more like you're applying to the wrong places as opposed to your degree being the issue.

I have a 2.1 law degree from a good university and I got a low level admin job in the NHS. 2 years later and 4 promotions later, I am earning more than double what I started on in that first job, despite the fact that my law degree is not really relevant to the NHS at all. Having a degree in itself shows that you are intelligent - especially if, as you say, you have a first at the top of your cohort - so maybe you are not emphasising the skills you gained from the degree adequately enough in your applications and covering letters? A degree is always an asset, many admin jobs now put something like 'suitable for graduates' because unfortunately there are so many graduates that they can quite realistically recruit a graduate for a low level admin position.

I would have a look back over your CV and your applications/cover letters to make sure you are really highlighting your experience and how it applies to work. Employers for roles not related to your degree will really not care much about your academic achievements, prizes, module results, etc - a simple overall result, course, and university is enough. Use the rest of the space talking about your previous roles and skills gained, as well as transferable skills gained from your degree.

I used to work in recruitment and most of the people with degrees who were not getting these jobs just had a bad application. It is always good for a company if you have a degree in a job that does not require it - having well qualified low level staff is a huge asset to any organisation. I don't know about retail jobs, but I would imagine that's not really what you're looking for so perhaps change where you're looking also. If you've applied for 100 jobs I do think you must be doing something not quite right, with your work experience and degree

Reply 13

OP

Original post by Klix88

The fact that you have been working since you were 16 (14 if your original statement was accurate - or maybe you spent 2 years applying for jobs unsuccessfully) will be a big positive on its own and speaks volumes about your motivation to a prospective employer. There's no need to over-egg the pudding.

What the heck? I've worked for the council since I was 16. I'm now 25. I've been applying for jobs for 9 years. Is my math wrong? My statements are accurate. I do have a really broad work history, because I've moved around and most of my jobs have been temporary. (Which might be a problem in itself (i.e. temporary jobs suggest I don't want stability, so I make it clear that I'm looking for something a bit more stable in my applications.) I've actually been working since I was 13, but I don't think employers will give much of a **** about my 3 years working Saturdays and Sundays in a grocery shop. This is my (as comprehensive as I can make it) work history:

Shop assistant
Waitress for like a month
Library assistant (weekends at school, 30-40 hours a week during holidays, covered three libraries)
Full-time waitress (after I left uni the first time around after only a couple months, worked here for a year and a half)
Hotel receptionist (9 months)
Office junior for a college (temporary position 6 months)
[Moved to Australia]
Administrator for mining company in middle of nowhere (temporary position 3 months)
Filing clerk in city (temporary position 2 months)
Receptionist/Personal Assistant (6 months)
[Moved back to Scotland]
Admin assistant (temporary position 6 months)
Transcriptionist for like a month before I quit because I hated it so much (don't include this in any application/CV whatsoever cuz I didn't learn anything)
Clerical assistant for university (temporary position 6 months) (also a relief receptionist for a chaotic department that always had staff shortage while doing this job)
Shelver in library (crossed over with clerical assistant job - worked there for a year)
Relief library assistant (for a year, but I didn't get many shifts so it didn't work out)
Visitor attraction assistant (also worked as catering assistant when they were really short on staff just because I had hospitality experience years previously)

I know this sounds like an insane amount of work experience - they've mostly been temporary jobs, and I don't know how I've ended up with that amount of work, but there you go. I actually took a year off from work for my final year to concentrate on uni. For applications, I don't even talk about every job I've ever had - only the relevant ones/the ones I've gleaned the most from! It would be impossible to list everything. I don't need to egg the pudding, in fact the pudding is already so eggy that I have to leave... eggs out... or whatever the appropriate metaphor would be in response haha!

Reply 14

username738914

Original post by LannaBanana

100 applications isn't much?! Maybe I've been spoiled before, I seriously don't think I've applied for more than 10 jobs without getting an interview! :frown:

It's actually really crushing my confidence and I hate having no money. Do you really think 100 applications isn't so bad? None of my friends who did English seem to be applying for jobs now so I'm not sure how it is for other people.

Yes, it's not that bad. But I do think there's a possible lack of focus element at play (alluded to by threeportdrift) as well as not making opportunities for yourself. Just going out there and speaking with alum from your uni/course for advice would be 100x more valuable than plugging tonnes of applications at a time.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 15

OP

Original post by infairverona

...

Did you have significant work experience alongside your degree too? I can't blame people for thinking it's my application to be honest, because if I was reading this post I'd assume that too. Maybe it's not the degree that's holding me back, but I seriously doubt it's my application either. I've had feedback from the careers office, from my old employer, from professional people online (reddit not TSR), I know I'm doing it correctly. :frown:

I've read good applications and bad applications online to get a sense of what employers are looking for. I'd have to be seriously dumb to do this much research and still believe my application was good if it was sh-itty, right?!

Original post by LannaBanana

Anyways, you said you've read loads of applications on TSR... is there a place people can post them for feedback or something? I have an interview that I really hope goes well on Wednesday and I have loads to prepare for it, but if I don't get it, I would actually really appreciate feedback for any other jobs I'm applying for. If you really don't think it's my degree, then I guess something must've been overlooked somewhere in the way I'm presenting myself.

There is a CV Help forum in Careers and Jobs. It looks empty, but that's because it is a private forum, and you can only see the tread that you start. If you start a thread and upload your CV in there as a Word doc, saying what job you have written it for, and ideally a copy of the job advert, 'someone' will be along and take a look at it.

Quite appreciate how ***** frustrating job hunting is!

Reply 17

username944192

Original post by LannaBanana

Did you have significant work experience alongside your degree too? I can't blame people for thinking it's my application to be honest, because if I was reading this post I'd assume that too. Maybe it's not the degree that's holding me back, but I seriously doubt it's my application either. I've had feedback from the careers office, from my old employer, from professional people online (reddit not TSR), I know I'm doing it correctly. :frown:

I've read good applications and bad applications online to get a sense of what employers are looking for. I'd have to be seriously dumb to do this much research and still believe my application was good if it was sh-itty, right?!

No I had no office experience at all, only retail! But obviously when applying for an office job the key elements are written and verbal communication, time management, working as a team, etc which you can fulfil through describing degree skills. You could just be unlucky if you've done a lot of research but that's still really odd. When you apply for jobs, are you looking through the job description and person specification and making sure you really explain why you meet all the criteria and changing this for every single job you apply to?

Reply 18

OP

Original post by infairverona

No I had no office experience at all, only retail! But obviously when applying for an office job the key elements are written and verbal communication, time management, working as a team, etc which you can fulfil through describing degree skills. You could just be unlucky if you've done a lot of research but that's still really odd. When you apply for jobs, are you looking through the job description and person specification and making sure you really explain why you meet all the criteria and changing this for every single job you apply to?

I'm not saying that degrees aren't useful. But I do think that the degree combined with the amount of work experience I've had that's relevant (5ish years instead of the normally asked for 2!) I think employers think I'm overqualified and won't stay. One of my aunts used to work for HR (this was like 20 years ago so I assumed it had changed which is why I didn't pay any attention to her), and she told me that being overqualified was just as likely to get your application thrown out as being under-qualified for certain positions, especially if there were a lot of applications. It's not my degree that's the hassle, I think it's my degree + my work experience.

And yes, I'm doing all that. I'VE TAKEN ALL THE ADVICE -cries-

Reply 19

username944192