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Nutty EU bureaucrats, butthurt over the Brexit vote, propose abolishing countries

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Reply 20
Click the link in the post and read it :dunce:
Original post by 41b
Click the link in the post and read it :dunce:


No I mean, where did you get this document?
Reply 22
It was leaked to Polish newspapers.
Original post by 41b
It was leaked to Polish newspapers.


... Interesting

What do you intend to do if Article 50 is not evoked soon?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
They'd have done a lot better at it if they hadn't inflicted a currency designed for Germany on them. Without that, it would have been a simple matter of progressively improving their economies with smart regional policies and introducing better government and anti-corruption measures.


It doesn't matter who the currency was designed for, any single currency would have failed because of the extreme lack of economic convergence of the eurozone (different business cycles, different labour costs, different housing markets, different banking systems, different fiscal positions etc). You just can't harmonise economies that different--Italy (which hasn't grown since 2000) can never be Germany. Plus you can't get rid of corruption from the outside, it is a result of a country's political culture, if it were possible Africa would be a very different place right now.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by JIRAIYA-ERO-SENNIN
It doesn't matter who the currency was designed for, any single currency would ahave failed because of the extreme lack of economic convergence of the eurozone (different business cycles, different labour costs, different housing markets, different banking systems, different fiscal positions etc). You just can't harmonise economies that different--Italy (which hasn't grown since 2000) can never be Germany. Plus you can't get rid of corruption from the outside, it is a result of a country's political culture, if it were possible Africa would be a very different place right now.


It is good to see interesting posts.

Many of those points were made by the IMF when assessing the UK's suitability for the Euro.

The reality is that it expanded far too quickly with little thought. At the very least, there has to be a massive increase in fiscal transfers across the Euro because the Germans are sucking the life out of the rest of the major members of the Eurozone ( IE France, Spain and etc)
Original post by DorianGrayism
It is good to see interesting posts.

Many of those points were made by the IMF when assessing the UK's suitability for the Euro.

The reality is that it expanded far too quickly with little thought. At the very least, there has to be a massive increase in fiscal transfers across the Euro because the Germans are sucking the life out of the rest of the major members of the Eurozone ( IE France, Spain and etc)


Big problem, fiscal transfers from whom? Germany would not be able to sustain the level of transfers to France, Italy and Greece. If it is somehow sustainable economically, it certainly isn't sustainable politically. The country still hasn't recovered from having to transfer to East Germany following reunification, this is why Germans are very suspicious of bailing out the Med countries because they fear it will never end. It will never end especially if you're dealing with a leaking bucket like Italy which simply cannot grow, is insanely corrupt and incompetent and which finds it impossible to collect enough of its own taxes--Italians are some the biggest tax avoiders and evaders out there--it's an art form in that country.
Original post by 41b
History is too triggering for them. They prefer fantasies.


Well it was a bit of a detour to be fair. However I'm very much against religion so it is an example from history that speaks out to me about how you can injury your own cause.
Original post by JIRAIYA-ERO-SENNIN
Big problem, fiscal transfers from whom? Germany would not be able to sustain the level of transfers to France, Italy and Greece. If it is somehow sustainable economically, it certainly isn't sustainable politically. The country still hasn't recovered from having to transfer to East Germany following reunification, this is why Germans are very suspicious of bailing out the Med countries because they fear it will never end. It will never end especially if you're dealing with a leaking bucket like Italy which simply cannot grow, is insanely corrupt and incompetent and which finds it impossible to collect enough of its own taxes--Italians are some the biggest tax avoiders and evaders out there--it's an art form in that country.


Great points.

Outside of increased taxation going directly to the EU from "successful" member states to be used in for fiscal transfer, I don't think there is a serious feasible solution.

Even then, like you point out, will it be enough to save those Med countries that have such serious problems? Probably not.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 29
Original post by Mathemagicien
Do you wonder why the USA is much more powerful than Europe, despite Europe's greater population and GDP?



Obviously it'll take a long time (and I agree the euro project has been very rushed, it should have happened much slower), but it is obviously possible for them to catch up; many Eastern European states, e.g. Poland, have been consistently outgrowing Western ones, even with huge emigration, huge demographic problems, and still a lot of corruption


I thought the main reasons the USA is much more powerful is because it had a 30 year head start from the 40s,it's rabidly capitalistic with no thought for the millions-nay 10s of millions?- of its population living in abject poverty and because it has successfully duped its population into believing the largely misleading notion that if they work really hard and do without the level of rights at work Europeans enjoy they too might one day be part of the so called American Dream.

Is that the right answer?
(edited 7 years ago)
I've studied the EU, and I don't like what it does as organization on principle. This does seem like something I'd expect from them. The Euro itself always seemed to me like a subtle attempt at eroding national identity. This would seem to be a logical next step.
Original post by jeremy1988
I've studied the EU, and I don't like what it does as organization on principle. This does seem like something I'd expect from them. The Euro itself always seemed to me like a subtle attempt at eroding national identity. This would seem to be a logical next step.


I think it's turning into a real trade empire. Join, get free trade, become increasingly dependent. Meanwhile, increasingly lose sovereignty and self rule. Lose self determination on matters beyond trade concerns.

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