Scotland can't do referendums any time they want

They voted to remain in the UK so they're not a free and independent nation. They voted to remain in the UK and having a small population it means the English rule on Scotland. If they voted for independence then they would have the right to join the EU. The English will concede a new referendum in 2036. Till then, 'Better Together' :biggrin:

Reply 1

SMEGGGY

21

Westminster can deny it. They better had. Time of the month for Nicola it seems.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 2

jeremy1988

13

Unless Scotland can get a guarantee of joining the EU quickly or having unbroken membership carried over, I don't know that they'll vote to leave the UK. Can you imagine how they'd feel if they voted to leave the UK, and then had to apply to the EU, spending years as an independent country? I doubt they want that kind of uncertainty.

It could take them years to get back into the EU, and who knows what the state of it will be at that time?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 3

Platopus

19

If they want another referendum, I say it's only fair to let them have it. They voted to remain part of a UK in the EU. Circumstances have changed now that the UK is leaving the EU. Besides, the EU might not necessarily accept an independent Scotland and it would be hilarious if they left the UK to remain part of an EU which subsequently rejected them.

Reply 4

tengentoppa

18

Original post by jeremy1988

Unless Scotland can get a guarantee of joining the EU quickly or having unbroken membership carried over, I don't know that they'll vote to leave the UK. Can you imagine how they'd feel if they voted to leave the UK, and then had to apply to the EU, spending years as an independent country? I doubt they want that kind of uncertainty.

It could take them years to get back into the EU, and who knows what the state of it will be at that time?

Not to mention countries like Spain would veto their membership, making it very difficult for them to join.

Reply 5

SaucissonSecCy

16

They won't anyhow yet because the EU is not interested in allowing them in if the UK leaves.

Reply 6

Gora The Xplorer

8

Original post by Platopus

If they want another referendum, I say it's only fair to let them have it. They voted to remain part of a UK in the EU. Circumstances have changed now that the UK is leaving the EU. Besides, the EU might not necessarily accept an independent Scotland and it would be hilarious if they left the UK to remain part of an EU which subsequently rejected them.

Nonsense, if we increase income tax by 1% old Sturgeon can't claim the Scots voted to be part of the UK at previous levels of income tax and so it's only fair to have another referendum or else any policy which is approved by Westminster would.

(I am aware that income tax is a devolved matter, but you get the point.)

Reply 7

Platopus

19

Original post by Gora The Xplorer

Nonsense, if we increase income tax by 1% old Sturgeon can't claim the Scots voted to be part of the UK at previous levels of income tax and so it's only fair to have another referendum or else any policy which is approved by Westminster would.

(I am aware that income tax is a devolved matter, but you get the point.)

I do take and accept your point. Personally however, I'm so bored with their whining that I'm inclined to believe that if they really want to go I'd say good riddance.

Reply 8

Gora The Xplorer

8

Original post by Platopus

I do take and accept your point. Personally however, I'm so bored with their whining that I'm inclined to believe that if they really want to go I'd say good riddance.

In my mind the problem is that England gave them far too much.

Reply 9

TimmonaPortella

21

Original post by Gora The Xplorer

Nonsense, if we increase income tax by 1% old Sturgeon can't claim the Scots voted to be part of the UK at previous levels of income tax and so it's only fair to have another referendum or else any policy which is approved by Westminster would.

She could claim that, and people would buy into it. This really sums up why the present position is unsustainable. The basic line is that democracy through Westminster is illegitimate, because sometimes the vote doesn't go in the way that 50%+1 Scotsmen would like.

Reply 10

Gora The Xplorer

8

Original post by TimmonaPortella

She could claim that, and people would buy into it. This really sums up why the present position is unsustainable. The basic line is that democracy through Westminster is illegitimate, because sometimes the vote doesn't go in the way that 50%+1 Scotsmen would like.

This is why I hope sturgeon doesn't block Brexit. Even if the vote had gone the other way, she would be clamoring for another referendum over something else. The SNP is a disgusting little party, after Froggy Salmond stepped down they were talking about how they'll get indepedence next time, they have no class.

Reply 11

TimmonaPortella

21

Original post by Gora The Xplorer

This is why I hope sturgeon doesn't block Brexit. Even if the vote had gone the other way, she would be clamoring for another referendum over something else. The SNP is a disgusting little party, after Froggy Salmond stepped down they were talking about how they'll get indepedence next time, they have no class.

She can't block brexit. She can throw up some obstacles, but a parliament and government that derives its power from Westminster cannot ultimately block Westminster. Then again, with a heavily europhile Westminster, obstacles might be enough...

Reply 12

drogon

2

how democratic of you. The irony just hurts

Reply 13

nulli tertius

21

Actually the Scots can do referendums any time they want, but they can't do one on a reserved matter such as independence.

Any civil parish in England or community in Wales could hold its own referendum on Brexit.

Reply 14

saeed9758

Original post by tengentoppa

Not to mention countries like Spain would veto their membership, making it very difficult for them to join.

Why would spain veto scotlands eu membership?

Reply 15

tengentoppa

18

Original post by saeed9758

Why would spain veto scotlands eu membership?

To discourage their own Catalan independence movement.

Reply 16

Alba2013

14

Original post by saeed9758

Why would spain veto scotlands eu membership?

Because allowing Scotland to join the EU as a free nation would encourage Catalonia to seek independence from Spain and apply for EU membership.

Reply 17

nulli tertius

21

Original post by tengentoppa

To discourage their own Catalan independence movement.

I don't think this "veto" will stick. Spain doesn't recognise Kosovo, but the EU is busy engaging with it, with a view to it becoming a candidate for membership.

Reply 18

L i b

19

Original post by Platopus

If they want another referendum, I say it's only fair to let them have it. They voted to remain part of a UK in the EU.

We didn't vote to remain "part of the UK in the EU", we voted to remain part of the UK. That did not have conditions attached and foreign policy is a question for the whole country.

Equally, the UK Government can't (or, rather, shouldn't) just repeal devolution if the Scottish Parliament votes to exercise its powers in a way they don't like.

The SNP has never accepted the referendum result and was agitating for a second referendum virtually from the day after. Instead of being once in a generation or once in a lifetime as they repeatedly said before the vote, it's now less than two years later and they're already writing legislation for a second vote. It's ludicrous.

Reply 19

L i b

19

Original post by RoyalMarine

They voted to remain in the UK and having a small population it means the English rule on Scotland

That's as stupid as saying "the whites rule on the blacks" in the UK. In other words, unutterably stupid. We are all equal in a democratic United Kingdom and have an equal say in our governance.

If they voted for independence then they would have the right to join the EU.

No-one has a "right" to join the EU

Scotland can't do referendums any time they want

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