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Had I not been concerned with reputation, I would have gone to SOAS or King's. I chose LSE because I know it has a great reputation in the private and public sector. I have already recommended that the OP go for LSE or KCL over Manchester, for similar reasons.I never said reputation doesn't matter; I said the way you are defining it is nebulous at best.

My point is that places like NGOs, the World Bank, think tanks, and the like, are not going to discriminate between an IR and Global Politics graduate, on the basis of the departments' reputation. A glance through the Facebook shows GP graduates in pretty much the same types of jobs as IR grads. Neither will any admissions person at a top PhD program turn their nose up at a recommendation from Mary Kaldor or David Held. What will get noticed will be the fact that it's an MSc from the London School of Economics. Then they'll look at your course choices and dissertation topic.
Anyway, I need to be a good girl and read for my dissertation. I"ll let you know if I love my course anymore when I get my results :p:
Reply 22
shady lane
My point is that places like NGOs, the World Bank, think tanks, and the like, are not going to discriminate between an IR and Global Politics graduate, on the basis of the departments' reputation.


Heh, then you haven't been on the DC side of things. You're assuming you know what's going on, but I will tell you from actual experience that that's not always the case.

Again, it's a matter of strategy. How do you position your studies in the overall arc of what you want to do, and how do you convey that. The World Bank especially is a place that puts a lot of stock on reputation. The point is, you never know what points an employer will look at, so it's good to know the overall contours of reputation and more importantly, everything else that will affect your enjoyment of a program.

Look, let's leave it at this: reputation matters, even something as minute as the reputation between departments. You never know what impact it's going to have on a future employer, and really you shouldn't be worried about that. But you don't do anyone any favors by saying these issues never factor in. They do, but it's up the individual - and his or her individual assessment of their situation - to weigh how much of an impact it will have, and whether it's even worth worrying about. In those calculations, it's a mistake to say that the reputation issue isn't there, but it's definitely a point to say that it shouldn't matter in your overall deliberations.
Reply 23
I appreciate all the help i've gotten on this topic.


Chengora, if I remember correctly, you stated that you hire from LSE applicant pool.... If I apply and don't get accepted, how do you think a Manchester degree would look on a resume? I know studying abroad deffinately looks good on a resume, but will manchester be respected only because it's in England, or do you feel the qualtity of education at manchester has created a reputation for the school that will garner respect regardless of location?

or if anyone else has advice that would be helpful, I'd appreciate it....
Chengora
Heh, then you haven't been on the DC side of things. You're assuming you know what's going on, but I will tell you from actual experience that that's not always the case.

Again, it's a matter of strategy. How do you position your studies in the overall arc of what you want to do, and how do you convey that. The World Bank especially is a place that puts a lot of stock on reputation. The point is, you never know what points an employer will look at, so it's good to know the overall contours of reputation and more importantly, everything else that will affect your enjoyment of a program.

Look, let's leave it at this: reputation matters, even something as minute as the reputation between departments. You never know what impact it's going to have on a future employer, and really you shouldn't be worried about that. But you don't do anyone any favors by saying these issues never factor in. They do, but it's up the individual - and his or her individual assessment of their situation - to weigh how much of an impact it will have, and whether it's even worth worrying about. In those calculations, it's a mistake to say that the reputation issue isn't there, but it's definitely a point to say that it shouldn't matter in your overall deliberations.


I happen to hate DC and its politics (the career ones, that is) with a burning passion. This explains why I don't have any friends in IR that are American. They tend to be social climbers who don't care about academics, just about their job prospects. There's one particular gem who is rude to everyone in my course except for me, because he heard I went to Stanford and wants to be in my good graces for networking. I seriously hate that type of behavior.

Turns out that the World Bank actually doesn't care though--there are GP graduates working there. And one of my good friends actually worked at the Bank and then chose to do an MSc in Global Politics. I really think that you've been sipping the IR Kool-Aid.
Reply 25
Turns out that the World Bank actually doesn't care though--there are GP graduates working there. And one of my good friends actually worked at the Bank and then chose to do an MSc in Global Politics. I really think that you've been sipping the IR Kool-Aid.


Seriously? This is exactly what I'm talking about: the constant need to engage in personal attacks, when what you really should be discussing is the frame of experience that let's you say "this is the case".

And I didn't say that the World Bank wouldn't hire GP grads. Rather, they are more conscious than most of other employers. Look, I keep giving you nuanced points, how everything really comes down to the individual circumstance, and you're constantly misinterpreting what I'm saying. These are GENERAL trends, but as you should know from your methodology, general trends don't say anything about how specific instances will necessarily turn out.

And by the same token, you're making the same mistake when you say my behavior fits into a larger trend of what "IR students are like". From what I've seen on this board, you've got a persistent bias against them. I don't know why, and I'd be happy to introduce you to any of my friends who also did IR, are great people, and don't look down on students who went to different programs. Simply because you have your own stereotypes and hang ups, don't take it out on people you don't know. Stick to the issues, not the personal attacks. You sure as hell better figure that out before you start at the ibank (I think that's what you said you were doing?). My girlfriend works for one of the best in that field, and you'll go a lot further if you can get over this issue.

Following my own advice, I'll follow this up with a comment on your last post, Americanguy.
Reply 26
americanguy
Chengora, if I remember correctly, you stated that you hire from LSE applicant pool.... If I apply and don't get accepted, how do you think a Manchester degree would look on a resume? I know studying abroad deffinately looks good on a resume, but will manchester be respected only because it's in England, or do you feel the qualtity of education at manchester has created a reputation for the school that will garner respect regardless of location?


Well, I hire from the LSE, Oxford, SIPA, SAIS, etc. pool. (Interestingly, my firm as a whole doesn't really hire from SAIS, anyway...) Kind of depends on the field. For development/aid stuff...you'd probably be better off going with a place like SOAS, which has rep in that field and will provide a good education. The issue is that, while study abroad is good, that's more of a general rule for...just getting employed. If you're going for consulting, for example, it's nice for them to see that you can operate in a different cultural environment.

But IR/development/government is different. Here, when they said study abroad, it often carries the implicit idea that you have traveled or worked in the region that the organization/position focuses on. This is by no means a hard rule: a friend of mine works on China, but studied abroad/traveled in Central Asia. But, my organization, however, strongly prefers people who have living experience, language, etc. in the regions they are interested in, ESPECIALLY Latin America (there are just so many Spanish and French speakers in the U.S.).

I bring this up because Manchester as a representative of England will have less of an impact in these fields than the quality of the program (and I don't know enough about Manchester as a program). Studying in England says something about you and your interests, but it won't necessarily outweigh the experiences that other people have had in other countries, if the jobs you're thinking of are focused on those countries. In essence, it won't be the strongest selling point in the development field.

And sorry for hijacking your thread for our feud. :redface:
Chengora
Seriously? This is exactly what I'm talking about: the constant need to engage in personal attacks, when what you really should be discussing is the frame of experience that let's you say "this is the case".

And I didn't say that the World Bank wouldn't hire GP grads. Rather, they are more conscious than most of other employers. Look, I keep giving you nuanced points, how everything really comes down to the individual circumstance, and you're constantly misinterpreting what I'm saying. These are GENERAL trends, but as you should know from your methodology, general trends don't say anything about how specific instances will necessarily turn out.

And by the same token, you're making the same mistake when you say my behavior fits into a larger trend of what "IR students are like". From what I've seen on this board, you've got a persistent bias against them. I don't know why, and I'd be happy to introduce you to any of my friends who also did IR, are great people, and don't look down on students who went to different programs. Simply because you have your own stereotypes and hang ups, don't take it out on people you don't know. Stick to the issues, not the personal attacks. You sure as hell better figure that out before you start at the ibank (I think that's what you said you were doing?). My girlfriend works for one of the best in that field, and you'll go a lot further if you can get over this issue..


You act as if I don't currently attend LSE, or as if I don't have friends in IR. Both are incorrect.

I said I don't have AMERICAN friends in IR. That's true. I don't like the ones I've met, bar the guy who started in Comparative and switched. I don't have to like them, nor do I have to massage their egos. One of my closest friends is in IR. Yet he manages rarely to mention how employable he is. Possibly because he doesn't have a job :p:

If you find "sipping Kool-Aid" to be an attack on your character, then I do apologize. I don't think it's a personal attack; it suggests that you've bought into the hype, that's all.

And as far as my career, it's totally sorted, and I don't think I need your girlfriend's approval. Thanks anyway.

All in all, if you read over my comments, you'll find almost no personal attacks on you or your character. I'm sure you're far too busy to read over it, but the record speaks for itself. I've attacked you for claiming things that I don't believe to be true. That's it. As I've said many times, I don't rely on my LSE degree for my reputation or my employability. I have a long CV that speaks for itself. I'm not even deeply invested in proving that I'm better than you, if that's what you think I'm doing. I'm giving an alternate perspective to your comments--and one that is much more based in reality, particularly for jobs outside of the Washington bubble.

OK. Debate over. (Although I'm sure you'll want the last word.)
Reply 28
I appreciate the advice, when I choose schools to apply to I found league rankings, or whatever they're called, and based my decisions partly on that. Another thing that I wanted when studying abroad was to be in a major city in England. I figured If i ended up at manchester people would see the name and relate it to the city of manchester, thus the country. While I'm not niave to think that the school is on par with Oxford, LSE, and a few other schools, I just wasn't sure if it was a step above most other schools or average at best on a resume. I started looking at personal statements and i think i'll start writting mine real soon..... the advice i've gotten from u 2 and reading a book at lunch at the local book store has been helpful and has given me an idea on how to incorporate my volunteer and work experience into my personal statement to have a more effective one than the one that I applied to manchester with.

Thanks again for all the help, I'm just glade to know that w/ my bachelor's and GPA i stand some sort of a chance at being accepted....

Shady, if you don't mind me asking what did you major in at Stanford, I have a friend majoring in I.R. out there, and it would be interesting to hear anoter perspective on Stanford's I.R. department. She's landed some awesome internships in oakland, and is doing the berlin internship that's being offered through Stanford this fall...

p.s. please excuse the crappy grammar, as i read through my post i feel like getting out the red sharpie!!
Reply 29
Heh, sounds like you're the one trying to get in the last word. "Debate over"? That's just juvenille and unbecoming of someone as intelligent as you.

I HAVE read over your posts, and all I see is "I don't like Americans in IR, you're an American who did IR, I don't like you." Or, how about "I don't like DC people because they are all social climbers, you're working in DC, you must be like that." My point has become secondary to all this, somehow. You try to refute my points, I make counterclaims, and then you start spouting off about how "every American in IR" feels this way. That's relating my points or my character to something that I am not advocating or discussing. In short, it's completely off-topic, but you seem to keep going there in many of the discussions on this board. At some point, making generalizations about people's personalities when you don't know them and haven't really considered their opinions is a bit silly, at the least.

I respect your opinion on this matter, but there's no need to say that I buy into a larger sentiment in IR, nor that I feel this way because I feel superior to my government friends. That couldn't be further from the truth. If you don't agree with my point, fine, use counterexamples. Don't go into the personality issues of how I feel better at night thinking this way. That's not germane.

My advice to you was well-meant, if strongly put. If you can't appreciate that, you remind me of the typical arrogance of Americans who, when in an expat situation, think they are better than everyone else. But, again, that isn't germane, fair, or accurate, as I have no basis for claiming that. Nor do you in saying I feel a certain way because of a certain predisposition. See how that works?

I can certainly appreciate not liking Washington and the jobs within it. After all, why do you think I'm applying for a Ph.D.? But, don't jump to conclusions. For example, if you hadn't, you could have asked whether I have worked anywhere else, like, say across Asia, or for the UN, places and bodies which are demonstrably NOT DC. And weirdly enough, those places are even more hung up on reputation (especially the UN, which was not the most pleasant experience). But your "reality" - well, I've established the connections, conversations, and context for why I feel the way I do. You've resorted to generalizations and false assumptions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

And the best piece of advice I can give you, Americanguy, is simply to look at this process of writing a statement of purpose as an opportunity to clarify why you want to get this degree. You're certainly starting early enough for that, and that's excellent. If I can get a bit philosophical here, from the school's perspective, this process is only okay in getting a sense of the person who is applying. But from your angle, it's a great way to really delve into why you want to study what you want. The very act of clarifying your statement, of tightening up your rationale and purpose, is a really great way to learn more about yourself and what you want to do. So, I would say, just take it slowly, if you can, and revisit the piece several times. Also, and most importantly, talk with your friends, especially those who are in similar situations, about their motivations.
americanguy

Shady, if you don't mind me asking what did you major in at Stanford, I have a friend majoring in I.R. out there, and it would be interesting to hear anoter perspective on Stanford's I.R. department. She's landed some awesome internships in oakland, and is doing the berlin internship that's being offered through Stanford this fall...

p.s. please excuse the crappy grammar, as i read through my post i feel like getting out the red sharpie!!


I majored in IR at Stanford. It was great. We had to do economics, IR, history, 2 years of a foreign language, and study abroad. I spent two quarters in Oxford. I would have loved to go to Berlin (it's the Krupp internship program btw) as I speak German, but I didn't have time.

There are some pretty major foreign policy guys at Stanford; my Intro to IR teacher was Stephen Krasner (I'm sure chengora has heard that name :wink: ) and Dr. Rice is meant to be back in 2008 (although I'm not her biggest fan). It's very different from the IR that's done in the UK, which I learned at Oxford (and is why I didn't go for a masters course in it). British IR is much more history focused, which is great for many people of course. It's also very traditional, in the sense of state-centered analysis. In undergrad, we talked loads about the market, NGOs, and other non-state actors, but at Oxford that was kind of non-existent.
Reply 31
that's awesome you speak German, I speak a little myself.... wish I had the time to study it more.... I've taken Spanish and German, and I enjoyed German much more than spanish, maybe it's because i have German heritage....lol.... from what little i know about your academic career you seem a lot like my friend who is majoring it in there, studying german, and is considering lse down the road. She didn't work in any african countries, but has written research papers malaria and H.I.V. in africa and the need for medicine over there.... I forget which argument she made, but appearantly it was very similar to that of a famous law professor out there... not sure of his name...
Reply 32
Chengora


Look, I've been out of LSE for several years now. I'm applying for a Ph.D. in poli sci in the best programs in the U.S., I've worked in top jobs in top companies in foreign policy, and I've published several papers while working. I won two awards for my dissertation, and I was the student-staff rep my year and played a critical role in fundamentally revamping three IR courses. I regularly advise and talk with people about LSE, especially in comparison to other MA schools, because I hire from that pool.



If you're such a big-shot, why do you spend so much time talking to morons like us?!
Reply 33
What sort of dissertation topics are floating about at the moment?
Sorry...couldn't resist this :p: In response to someone asking how to choose courses (granted it's undergrad but):

1.PPE@Oxford
2.Government@LSE OR International Relations But bear in mind that the Government degree(LSE)>IR degree(LSE) in terms of job prospects
3.Politics and IR@Warwick
4.Politics@Bristol
5.War Studies@Kings College London(war studies is a mixture of politics,ir and philosophy(ethics) )
2nd_slip
What sort of dissertation topics are floating about at the moment?


I'm writing on a very sexy topic: oil. It's funny, a tutor told me that solely based on my topic, if I do well on the dissertation, I'd be a shoo-in for a PhD because everyone wants an oil expert these days. Academia is a strange place, man.
Reply 36
shady lane
British IR is much more history focused, which is great for many people of course. It's also very traditional, in the sense of state-centered analysis. In undergrad, we talked loads about the market, NGOs, and other non-state actors, but at Oxford that was kind of non-existent.


Although I would agree that British IR is much more history focused, I wouldn't say that it is necessarily dominated by state-centered analysis to the expense of alternative theories. Aside from the English School, there is a strong critical and postpostivist strand to British IR; something that rests on more philosophical and ethical concerns.

And with regard to your oil research, is any of it linked to concerns about peak oil?
I'm looking at oil in relation to development. Basically I'm saying that oil's nature as a highly globalized commodity, combined with the historical role of sub-Saharan Africa in the global economy, explains the development trajectory of the region's oil exporters. Kind of framing the resource curse in historical perspective and challenging some of its assertions.
Reply 38
Wise One
Although I would agree that British IR is much more history focused, I wouldn't say that it is necessarily dominated by state-centered analysis to the expense of alternative theories. Aside from the English School, there is a strong critical and postpostivist strand to British IR; something that rests on more philosophical and ethical concerns.


Yeah, I would have to agree. There is a much stronger focus on the neo-neo consensus in the U.S. programs, particularly the realist side. And British/European journals tend to publish more pieces about ethical considerations and constructivist theory than, say, International Organization or International Security.

It's probably best to say that IR in the U.S. follows a particular strain of methodology and theory, and approaches political science more generally as a science, rather than as a social study. Case studies - and to a certain degree policy analysis - tend to take a smaller role in political science as a discipline in the U.S. This is for the type of Ph.D.s and scholarly writings they produce, by the way, which is not necessarily reflected in the undergrad experience.
Reply 39
shady lane
I'm looking at oil in relation to development. Basically I'm saying that oil's nature as a highly globalized commodity, combined with the historical role of sub-Saharan Africa in the global economy, explains the development trajectory of the region's oil exporters. Kind of framing the resource curse in historical perspective and challenging some of its assertions.


Sub Saharan Africa has an economy of note in the global scheme of things?

News to me.

I will focus on strategic relations.

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