The right to exist...

Acaila

Wow! That should definitely be looked into then!

I should probably point out that I was referring to Oxford. I don't know if the same would be true of Cambridge.

Reply 61

Alaric

crana

Regarding the differences in exam results at Oxbridge between girls and boys, I read this somewhere as explaining why New Hall/Newnham were often towards the bottom of the Tomkins (?) league table.

For some reason, a higher proportion of 1sts are awarded in subjects like computer science and engineering (it said - I don't have any data to back this up) than in say English.

Computer science, engineering, and similar courses contain disproportionate numbers of men compared to women.

Hence overall more firsts are achieved by men.

Anyone have any data to back this up?

compsci has a constant rate of firsts, 25%, so it's not very variable - I don't know how that level compares with arts subjects but apparently bionatsci this year had over 35% firsts in the second year and it's the more female dominated of the sciences. Perhaps it's more a problem with the subjects, females doing compsci seem to under perform in comparison with their entry grades, there weren't any firsts out of the 7 or so second year compscis this year and two(?) thirds.

I've heard other explanations for the differential between the Female colleges and mixed colleges. One which was favoured by a couple of my female friends was that most women applied to mixed colleges and so they got the top female candidates and Newnham/New Hall picked more from the pool. I think that probably has some truth, but it isn't really clear cut, I'd like to see the Baxter table to see if that could give some more light on that.
The other one is that women perform better at continually assessed exercises than exams and the tripos system is predominantly exam based.

Frankly I couldn't really care less about whether there are all female colleges. I'd be inclined to think it'd be better to have them abolished and to increase the male:female ratio in some of the male dominated colleges (and also the subjects).

Alaric.

Reply 62

crana

sexism is used as one of the reasons for having all-girl colleges - that men get more 1sts "unfairly" and all-girl colleges help to redress the balance.

If some female students find all-girl colleges a more pleasant environment than mixed ones, shouldn't that be sufficient reason to keep them? They don't have to address any sexism / discrimination to be justified.

Reply 63

Alaric

I've heard other explanations for the differential between the Female colleges and mixed colleges. One which was favoured by a couple of my female friends was that most women applied to mixed colleges and so they got the top female candidates and Newnham/New Hall picked more from the pool.

do other colleges with a high rate of people being pooled there usually do less well too, or not?

Reply 64

d750

if that's the main reason for having them, then shouldn't male ones also be introduced to be fair to both sexes?

Reply 65

crana

if that's the main reason for having them, then shouldn't male ones also be introduced to be fair to both sexes?

The reasons for getting rid of something have to be stronger than the reasons for instituting something, 'though.

Otherwise, we wouldn't have the monarchy or fox hunting. :smile:

Reply 66

d750

The reasons for getting rid of something have to be stronger than the reasons for instituting something, 'though.

Otherwise, we wouldn't have the monarchy or fox hunting. :smile:

in that case, bring in all male colleges instead of getting rid of all female colleges, doesn't really bother me.

Reply 67

Alaric

crana

do other colleges with a high rate of people being pooled there usually do less well too, or not?

Fitz, Girton, Homerton, magdalene, new hall, newnham, 'binson were the colleges that seemed to have the highest pool intakes for 2002. (http://www.cam.ac.uk/cambuniv/undergrad/statistics/collegenat.html)

Cross reference that with the Tompkins' table: http://www.uk-learning.net/t53614.html

They are pretty much consistently in the lower half of the table, note that's only a 10-15% difference, but it is a trend.

Alaric.

Reply 68

Alaric

So, statistically speaking, I'm going to a thick college (even though it was my first choice), and am bound to fail...

Reply 69

polthegael

So, statistically speaking, I'm going to a thick college (even though it was my first choice), and am bound to fail...

Yup.

Reply 70

Acaila

Well if I get into mine, so will I :smile:

Reply 71

BazTheMoney

polthegael

So, statistically speaking, I'm going to a thick college (even though it was my first choice), and am bound to fail...

Not really. But it makes sense that in general the students that are pooled aren't as good as the students given straight offers. For instance if a college has 10 places but 50 applicants, they are going to take what they consider to be the best 10, with the best of the rest going into the pool. Saying that every student who is given an offer is very good.

And these college league tables aren't worth the paper they're printed on. :rolleyes:

Reply 72

Acaila

Well if I get into mine, so will I :smile:

Ah well... I'm rationalising that Girton only took me because I was messed up enough to actually apply there as opposed to being pooled to them!

Maybe it'll work like that for you at your college too! But you know you want to go to Girton and swim all day in the pool instead of going to boring old lectures!!!

Reply 73

Acaila

(I'm hoping it will work for me too :wink:

. But I'm not just applying there because of that. I might even have applied there if it was as popular as Trinity :smile:

)

Reply 74

BazTheMoney

Maybe, but what pride is there in being one of the best morons in the university?

I didn't look into different colleges and besed my choice on hearing Girton had a swimming pool and, upon getting their prospectus seeing a really cute girl in it!

This implies that all the "best candidates" you are talking about applied elsewhere to start with!

Is there anyway I can find out how many people got offers before the pool? Girton takes about ten medics a year, but I don't know how many are through the pool...

Reply 75

polthegael

But you know you want to go to Girton and swim all day in the pool instead of going to boring old lectures!!!

lots further if you do want to go to a lecture though! :biggrin:

actually maybe what you said is why girton is lower down the league table..

Reply 76

Acaila

(I'm hoping it will work for me too :wink:

. But I'm not just applying there because of that. I might even have applied there if it was as popular as Trinity :smile:

)

Whats so good about it?

Reply 77

crana

actually maybe what you said is why girton is lower down the league table..

Valid observation! :smile:

Reply 78