Grammar schools to return

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Fair enough. Pretty sure if the ban is lifted its not like people will jump to establish hundreds of such schools & it would enable more students to attend such schools if a few more opened.

The only issue I see with them is the price tag.

A year at a grammar school in tuition fees + any other fees is on average more than a year at uni. That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me. Not every single bright and very clever student comes from a family that can possibly afford that. So something should be done about that. Whether the fees are in place or not, the schools are still competitive due to the tests. It's the money that sometimes locks out the ones who cannot afford it.

There is a difference between grammar schools and independent schools. The only things I paid for mostly during my time was for lunch and travel and occasionally on trips. It does not add up to £9000+ that would be ludicrous

Reply 61

BasicMistake

Original post by Trapz99

There are plenty of working class students (mostly of immigrant background) at my grammar school. No chavs though. Personally I think it does help students to achieve higher because of the competition from other students. I'm from a working class background and before I went to a grammar school I never knew how high some people achieved.

100% agree. When I tell people that I go to a grammar school they like to comment on how posh it must be and how posh I am. The reality is that the majority of students are working class but the drive for high academic standards reduces any form of chavvy indifference or behaviour.

Reply 62

username878267

Original post by Trapz99

As a grammar school student, I think it's a terrific idea. Being able to learn with other intelligent students creates a sense of competition, which has pushed me to achieve more and shows me that it's possible to aim higher. I never had this experience in my (comprehensive) primary school. I think going to a grammar school has been a life changing opportunity and has propelled me to aim higher than I would have at a comprehensive school.

Why not just have schools with streams in them? Meaning the best students learn with the best and the others in lower streams have motivation to go up a class, rather than being cast off.

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Reply 63

Trapz99

Original post by Bornblue

No because the people at the top stream will see loads of people below them and will start to slack off because they think that it's fine to aim lower. At least that's what happened to me in primary school, where we had streams. I'm a grammar school, pretty much every everyone is high-achieving, which will make you stand out like a sore thumb if you fail to aim as high as everyone else. But that's just my view.

Reply 64

drandy76

Great news, although I'm not too sure how much of a difference it will make. How many new Grammar schools were being opened-whether brand new or converted- before the ban was imposed?

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Reply 65

TiernanW

Original post by Trapz99

This is true. My secondary school had a lot of people failing or just passing, and I never saw people achieving straight A*s or straight As, and I didn't believe it was a thing that you could do to be honest. I am now at a grammar for my A-Levels, and a quarter of the year group got straight As at GCSE. I am actually doing better than some of the students who got straight A*s at GCSE now, and I think that is evidence enough that I also could have achieved that but didn't because there was no motivation or competition to do so.

Reply 66

RayApparently

Original post by 1010marina

"it's about social mobility" suuuure it is

That may well not be the Tories ambition but for me it was.

Reply 67

Maid Marian

Original post by Abstract_Prism

I'm concerned about people not attending grammar schools being condemned to poverty and having a social stigma attached to them.

How ridiculous.

Reply 68

lucabrasi98

Original post by 1010marina

A return to grammar schools will long term be a return to fee paying schools.

Why do you think so? Everyone I've seen say this has seemingly plucked the assumption from the air. I've seen no credible evidence of anything the people against grammar schools have said. Maybe there's a study I've missed.

Anyway, there's lots of fee paying schools already. There's also already grammar schools with 0 intention of ever becoming fee paying schools. It wouldn't affect anyone that doesn't want to pay.

As for your thing about peaking, I'd rather reward those who did well in year 6 than punish everyone. I disagree with it having anything to do with peaking anyway. The tests are often given in a way that anyone can sit them regardless of content covered. There's a reason why there's seperate tests instead of them using sats results.

They even adjust your marks depending on your birthday (an 8 month birthday advantage is more significant in kids than it is in young adults). They're made to be as fair as possible.

Plus it's misleading to say grammar schools failed.

http://www.mbctimes.com/english/20-best-education-systems-world

It's worth noting that every country ahead of us has no sort of grammar school ban as far as I'm aware.

Reply 69

umar39

Grammar Schools are great and more should be built across the country.

Reply 70

niteninja1

Original post by Bornblue

We had streams In my comprehensive however there were only six actually 3 sat there was a group a and b.

Set 1
Set 2
Set 3

1 best 3 worst

However if you were bad at one subject it dragged you down. I was moved from set 1 to set 2 because I refused to play rugby, strangely level 2 students went to the gym and set 1 students had to play full contact rugby

Reply 71

Pentaquark

What about those who just miss out? Or in my case parents who cba to take them for the test. :/
They'll just end up in even crappier schools.
I'm still at your average comp even for sixth form (for various reasons) and I hate it.
You don't realise how much better it is being with people of similar ability with similar aspirations.

I guess I'm mixed. Its great that more people have the opportunity to go to a grammar though.

Reply 72

username878267

Original post by Trapz99

That didn't happen to me. I went to a streamed school, ended up getting all As and A*. I was constantly pushed and worked harder in the top streams.

It also meant late developers still had a chance and always had something to aim at. I started off in the second set for a few subjects and worked my way up through the years.

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Reply 73

AfcFob

I think it's a good thing I mean I wish I could've gone to a grammar school but my parents are against them and would only let me go to a free school (our closest one had fees of around £2000 which we could easily afford) and I really underachieved at my school.

I don't think they're vital for gifted students to achieve their potential because I have friends at college with excellent grades from free schools but I do know it would've really helped me

Reply 74

Trapz99

Original post by AfcFob

Grammar schools are usually free.

Reply 75

username878267

Original post by AfcFob

If you underachieved you should take responsibility.

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Reply 76

Dnkz7

Is Dartford Grammar School a really good school? I got a place there but I turned them down believing I wouldn't achieve top grades at IB

Reply 77

AfcFob

Original post by Bornblue

If you underachieved you should take responsibility.

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For certain subjects I do take responsibility because I went into some GCSE's too relaxed however for some subjects I was being taught by teachers that were not even qualified to teach the subject, so my school didn't help me at all since they were understaffed in some areas

I still achieved well over my DfE targets but I still know I could've done better

Reply 78

BasicMistake

Original post by Pentaquark

Wouldn't more grammar schools reduce the vicious competition for places? Those who missed out by a few marks in their 11+ will have more opportunities to get into a grammar school as the mark thresholds will theoretically be lower and if they had a bad day, they could take an entrance exam at another school.