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UK Politics - BNP & BBC1s "Secret Agent" Programme

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    (Original post by Jools)
    Griffin liasing with the Sikh community.
    to be fair that was done at a time when the Sikh community had their own problems with young muslim criminals and so was more of a joint tactic of some kind between the BNP and some "extreme" Sikh gangs. (I don't really want tot call them extreme more misguided IMO I think they did a good job).
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    (Original post by polthegael)
    Far be it from me to back up the BNP, but do you not think this kind of thing is wrong?

    People should have the right to vote for whoever they want and such negative publicity usually back-fires on you. An example of how that could happen here is if some apolitical thugs who would never have dreamed of voting before hear these extreme views and say "heh, that's what I think", and start to get actively involved - we start to have an even bigger problem. A few middle class voters voting for one group of right bigots over another (Mr Duncan Smith's crew, for example) will not affect British "democracy"...

    Live and let live!
    Well its not like these thugs would never have known what the BNP is about, the middle classes might be less understanding of the violent nature.
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    (Original post by hattori)
    to be fair that was done at a time when the Sikh community had their own problems with young muslim criminals and so was more of a joint tactic of some kind between the BNP and some "extreme" Sikh gangs. (I don't really want tot call them extreme more misguided IMO I think they did a good job).
    Sikhs are really nice people as a whole, and have a really tolerant outlook on things.

    I don't think you should all be so negative about these other religious groups... What are you? All BNP members?
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    (Original post by Jools)
    I don't think the media's been that harsh to BNP recently (until today). It's allowed them to highlight their apparent efforts to shake off their Nazi image and come across as well-presented politicians, representing the interests of the white Britons, and being more 'open' - the half Turkish member, and Griffin liasing with the Sikh community.
    Errrr, no.
    Have you seen the relentless tabloid pleading of 'don't vote for the BNP', even Sun's front page today read "Bloody Nasty People", it is irrational to say such headlines arent 'harsh'. Then there is the constant refusal of the BBC to place links to the BNP in any stories about the BNP. In the elections there were local newspapers who published lists of candidates, yet some candidates mysteriously didn't appear in the list. Not forgetting the constant attempts at assocating the BNP with words that have negative connotations: racists, nazis, bigots, extremists.

    The reason why it may appear the media haven't been that harsh recently is due to groups advising the media not to give any publicity to the BNP. Thus during the elections they decided to focus on UKIP as the party on the 'far-right'.

    (Original post by Jools)
    Tonight's documentary is going to put an end to it all. Tonight will be the start of BNP's fall from 'grace'. When 10m see the 'truth', it's going to crush the new "we're-not-racist BNP'"s newfound electorate of decent citizens concerned with asylum, non-white thugs, who will realise they were disillusioned by BNP's new squeaky-clean whiter than white (see what I did there) image.
    Dream on. These media fascists pathetic attempts to propagandise British people into abandoning their only hope won't work. If anything, this documentary is just another milestone in the BBC's fall from grace and goes to show the increasing threat to democracy in this country from the government and media.

    (Original post by Jools)
    Now *this* is investigative journalism. Jason Gwynne putting his life at threat for a groundbreaking story.
    His life at threat? That guy must have a huge ego. It isn't exactly hard to go to a BNP meeting and ply some members with alcohol before suggesting to them that a bomb could be put in a skip outside a mosque and videotaping the subsequent comments. This isn't invdestigative journalism, it's propaganda.
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    (Original post by hattori)
    to be fair that was done at a time when the Sikh community had their own problems with young muslim criminals and so was more of a joint tactic of some kind between the BNP and some "extreme" Sikh gangs. (I don't really want tot call them extreme more misguided IMO I think they did a good job).
    I found the using of a Sikh man in the BNP election broadcast deeply offensive for two reasons:

    1) because Sikhism is on the whole known as and respected as a peaceful religion, it is the middle way between hinduism and islam

    2) the man went on about how muslims killed his father during the partition of India.. now I condemn any religious murders that went on during that time(and there were massacres on all sides, of hindus, muslims and sikhs- the problem being that the british under-estimated the religious diversity and bitterness that existed in india, and also because the Muslim League under Jinnah didn't want to co-operate with the Congress party) using old historical arguments is the most insulting of all I find..

    I will have to watch the programme(which i'm taping) myself whether to judge if its investigative journalism or not!
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    God, that guy currently lambasting Michael Howard. What a ****er.
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    (Original post by Jools)
    God, that guy currently lambasting Michael Howard. What a ****er.
    aint that the truth.

    shocking programme
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    I liked what Nick Griffin had to say against paedophiles though.
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    My afterthoughts are that it was quite shocking. They should leave this sort of stuff to Channel 4. I mean, there was hardly any evil music being played in the background and only one reference to nazism! They really are letting their standards slip at the BBC, perhaps they are a bit sensitive after the Hutton enquiry?

    Some of the stuff used by the 'reporter' was laughable: "he made some really extreme comments, but I err, was too scared to change the tapes", "he's just been saying that he wants to invade Poland, but I don't think I managed to catch it on tape", "I'm preety sure he wasn't drunk.." etc. :rolleyes: Then there was of course all his ego boosting comments, about how scary it was and how he just wanted it to end.

    He was there for six months, amongst hundreds of BNP members, and he only managed to find a handful of BNP members making some foolish drunken comments. Big deal, there are some bad apples in the BNP, hence they've been expelled - it's hardly justification to make such ridiculous claims that the BNP is secretly a racist party.

    Give me half an hour of conversation with anybody, and with some heavy editing and a running commentary of what they really mean, I bet I could make them seem like an evil person.
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    Don't forget, hear Nick Griffin's side of the story on Newsnight, BBC2, 22:30.
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    (Original post by polthegael)
    Sikhs are really nice people as a whole, and have a really tolerant outlook on things.

    I don't think you should all be so negative about these other religious groups... What are you? All BNP members?

    no im sikh..lol really i am. let me make myself clear, (this is off topic by the way..)

    The Sikh community as a whole have had alot of trouble with muslims since the late 80s in Britain. Some Sikhs decided to form "gangs" which were set up to deter young violent muslim kids who come to Sikh events to stir up trouble etc. It was an unfortunate circumstance but I don't disagree with the action the Sikhs took.

    Then some Sikhs (the massive minority) from this gang (maybe more) decided to meet up with the BNP about it. This was a really stupid.
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    Sadly one of those featured on the film, Mark Collett, former leader of the youth arm of the BNP, came from my old school. Eeekkk!
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    Terrorist charges have been alledged against BBC journalist Jason Gwynne:

    http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/2004_july/news_july11.htm
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    (Original post by benm)
    Terrorist charges have been alledged against BBC journalist Jason Gwynne:

    http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/2004_july/news_july11.htm
    hehe, slightly premature but

    (Original post by vienna)
    someones heading for a fall, and i suspect it wont be Griffin
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    If you exclude certain ppl just because you dont "like" what they have to say, thats severe discrimination. To deny a legal politcal party the same rights as others purely because you dont like their politics, is illegal discrimination and should be challenged in a court of law.

    All you liberals here that think the BNP should be done away with, what kind of a liberal are you? You are only "liberal" to ppl that suit your own needs and you discriminate against those who dont. What makes you any different than a BNP member? You are actually worse than a BNP member because you are willing to throw your country away all in a childish fantasy of multi-culturalism.
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    (Original post by benm)
    Terrorist charges have been alledged against BBC journalist Jason Gwynne:

    http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/2004_july/news_july11.htm
    Nothing will happen to him.

    But nothing will happen to Griffin either.
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    (Original post by AntiLiberal)
    If you exclude certain ppl just because you dont "like" what they have to say, thats severe discrimination. To deny a legal politcal party the same rights as others purely because you dont like their politics, is illegal discrimination and should be challenged in a court of law.

    All you liberals here that think the BNP should be done away with, what kind of a liberal are you? You are only "liberal" to ppl that suit your own needs and you discriminate against those who dont. What makes you any different than a BNP member? You are actually worse than a BNP member because you are willing to throw your country away all in a childish fantasy of multi-culturalism.
    I consider myself to be quite liberal and I dont want the BNP to be banned or anything, they have a purpose to play, which is manly demonstrating how ridculous the far right really are - why is it the BNP are so upset about this programme, they're always begging for more publicity, the programme will have no negative impact on their ability to recruit memeber or gain votes ihn elections because they represent a view which is unfortunatley held by many within Britain.
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    What I found most interesting about the program, and the subsequent interview with Nick Griffin on Newsnight, is how politically astute Nick Griffin is. By using the fact that it was a senior member who had turned against them, it was easy to brush away the claims regarding the criminal actions of the people featured, as they had been recruited by the mole. If you are looking to criticise a group of people, recruiting some of the worst members of society into the group would be an easy way to achieve that. I am not saying thats what happened, but by the fact that Andy Sykes was so high up in the party structure, it offered leverage back to Nick Griffin.
    Personally my political views and his are very different, but it shows that the far right-wing of british politics have leaders that can hold their own on Newsnight, better than many sitting MPs

    To anyone who strongly disagrees with the views of the BNP, they need to fight them on issues, rather than entering into a mudslinging contest. The NUS No-Platform policy is a prime example of how not to win a political argument. By censoring any group, you seek only to strengthen their support, as they turn the debate away from the issues at hand, and into a debate on Freedom of Speech. If the BNP are attracting support in an area, the Center-Left and Center-Right parties need to look to see why people are disillusioned with them. Is the BNP winning purely on issues, or is there a local problem being exploited for political gains? The left wing would do better to improve living conditions for all. If there is very low unemployment, people won't worry about "Immigrants taking our jobs", but if there is high unemployment, resent will build up from, as Nick Griffin himself put it, "Angry young white men"

    The allegations of terrorism against the journalist could be complete fiction, but are more likely the result of taking out of context what the journalist said whilst scared, drunk, and trying to fit-in and not blow his cover.

    The BNP will brush this documentary off quickly. Long term, UKIP will do more damage to the BNP than this program.
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    (Original post by dave134)
    What I found most interesting about the program, and the subsequent interview with Nick Griffin on Newsnight, is how politically astute Nick Griffin is. By using the fact that it was a senior member who had turned against them, it was easy to brush away the claims regarding the criminal actions of the people featured, as they had been recruited by the mole. If you are looking to criticise a group of people, recruiting some of the worst members of society into the group would be an easy way to achieve that. I am not saying thats what happened, but by the fact that Andy Sykes was so high up in the party structure, it offered leverage back to Nick Griffin.
    Personally my political views and his are very different, but it shows that the far right-wing of british politics have leaders that can hold their own on Newsnight, better than many sitting MPs

    To anyone who strongly disagrees with the views of the BNP, they need to fight them on issues, rather than entering into a mudslinging contest. The NUS No-Platform policy is a prime example of how not to win a political argument. By censoring any group, you seek only to strengthen their support, as they turn the debate away from the issues at hand, and into a debate on Freedom of Speech. If the BNP are attracting support in an area, the Center-Left and Center-Right parties need to look to see why people are disillusioned with them. Is the BNP winning purely on issues, or is there a local problem being exploited for political gains? The left wing would do better to improve living conditions for all. If there is very low unemployment, people won't worry about "Immigrants taking our jobs", but if there is high unemployment, resent will build up from, as Nick Griffin himself put it, "Angry young white men"

    The allegations of terrorism against the journalist could be complete fiction, but are more likely the result of taking out of context what the journalist said whilst scared, drunk, and trying to fit-in and not blow his cover.

    The BNP will brush this documentary off quickly. Long term, UKIP will do more damage to the BNP than this program.
    Yes I found it disturbing how "well" Nick Griffin came accross. He seemed balanced and responsible, and more honest than many on the program. Personally, I think Paxman would done a much better interview, as you need someone smart to counter Griffin who is pretty sharp himself.

    If you listened carefully, you could see how he is different to the BNP of old; he mixed his acceptable face - apologise, expel extremists, discipline extremists etc. - with the extremist comments about the nature of Islam, which when taken overall, more moderate people feel they can tolerate, because he's "sanitising" the message for them.

    I also have to say, either the BBC was very favourable in its editing (highly unlikely!) or Griffin did extremely well in that interview..Esler gave him plenty of time to say what he wanted, and Griffin kept his cool too. He also managed to make accusations (some I could believe) about the conduct of the BBC and their supposed complicity with far left organisations (that are just as bad as the BNP!).

    At this rate Griffin will ride the easily..they will never prosecute him because of the "platform" it would give him!
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    The leadership of the BNP is very different to the types of people that actually support. Their leadership is very clever (isn't their leader a Cambridge grad ), and their election tactics more often than not actually work pretty well. They're really good and latching onto certain issues to gain a political momentum.

    I'm all for any party having a say, we live in a democracy after all. But some of the comments of those that were shown on the film were either insiteful or went against the democratic process - didn't a prospective BNP councillor call democracy something ... ?
Updated: July 18, 2004
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