The Student Room Group

The world is going to tear itself apart with Islam hate

Scroll to see replies

Original post by Seelowe
It doesn't matter how they're brought up, or how many people believe it. If it's a harmful belief it's harmful. Most Germans believed it was fine to oppress Jews, but that doesn't mean it's right and doesn't mean I can't criticise it.

I can recognise the geopolitical reasons for increased terror, but without the ideology if Islam it would not be as widespread as it is. After all, you are far more likely to launch an attack if you take it to be religiously mandated, and if you are promised paradise. It erases feelings of both guilt and fear.

Just because people ignore the parts of the ideology they don't like doesn't mean that the ideology is not still poisonous. Also, you're ignoring the societal effects Islam has. Islam tends to oppress women, Christians, Non-Believers, homosexuals, and many other groups. Without the religion, this wouldn't happen at the rate it does. Gay men wouldn't be beheaded across the muslim world, priests in France and elsewhere wouldn't have their throats slit, and we wouldn't see commercial airliners flying into office buildings.

I think that without the Quran terror attacks would not be carried out at the rate they are. Obviously terrorism would still happen, nobody is arguing about that fact. However, the size and scope would be dramatically reduced if the religious element were eliminated. Again, belief in Islam is the belief that the Quran contains the will of the almighty. If the Quran contains commandments to murder non believers, there will always be a contingent of fundamentalists who support that.

There may well be political aims, but the actions carried out to achieve them would be VASTLY different without a religion that condones the murder of innocents in some form of Holy War.

The West meddles, and has meddled, in countless areas across the world, yet only in Muslim nations does this notion of holy war, and this endless and limitless terrorism take place. This is due to the teachings of the Islamic religion, and the sheer number of fundamentalists in these areas.


I'm going to need a source about the majority of Germans feeling that the massacre of Jews was ok.

And virtually all terrorism in recent years has been done in response to political unrest. The motivation of terrorists is never a heart-filled desire to help Islam by killing non-believers. The ONLY exception I can think of is Charlie Hebdo, but those two were radicalised in jail by another preacher, so political unrest and division is always the root cause - and never the religion. Its exactly the reason why the IRA committed terrorist attacks, only on a smaller scale.

I fundamentally believe that the reason Islam is at the centre is purely coincidence, and that we would be seeing worldwide Christian terrorism if Christianity was majorly found in a war-torn region. Because terrorist groups with political aims use extremism to justify reaching those aims, and groups like ISIS - who use social media at an increased rate, radicalise hateful Muslims. Islam isn't the problem, ISIS are - and their goals derive from the political chaos of this 5-way proxy war.
Original post by AlexanderHam
In other words, don't point out their religion is garbage or they'll get angry and bomb us. And they wonder why we prefer Sikhs, Hindus and Jews...
Such a way with words.
Original post by AlexanderHam
Who is actually persecuting Muslims?
Donald Trump for one.
Original post by AlexanderHam
It's so laughable that Muslims extrapolate from a few isolated incidents to claim that somehow they are being treated as second-class citizens and are being persecuted.
Yes those few 818 islamophobic crimes in one month (November 2015) in the UK. It's shocking to think that Muslims would make such a big deal of such an insignificant number isn't it?
Original post by AlexanderHam
Unfortunately, the victim mindset is very strong in Islam;
And you know this how?
Original post by AlexanderHam
it's how they justify terrorist attacks to attack other religions/ethnicities in regions where they live together (Kashmir, Palestine, South Thailand)
Yes. The so-called Islamic State think that they're victims. Poor them.
Reply 622
Original post by alevelstresss
I'm going to need a source about the majority of Germans feeling that the massacre of Jews was ok.

And virtually all terrorism in recent years has been done in response to political unrest. The motivation of terrorists is never a heart-filled desire to help Islam by killing non-believers. The ONLY exception I can think of is Charlie Hebdo, but those two were radicalised in jail by another preacher, so political unrest and division is always the root cause - and never the religion. Its exactly the reason why the IRA committed terrorist attacks, only on a smaller scale.

I fundamentally believe that the reason Islam is at the centre is purely coincidence, and that we would be seeing worldwide Christian terrorism if Christianity was majorly found in a war-torn region. Because terrorist groups with political aims use extremism to justify reaching those aims, and groups like ISIS - who use social media at an increased rate, radicalise hateful Muslims. Islam isn't the problem, ISIS are - and their goals derive from the political chaos of this 5-way proxy war.


You don't seem to be able to grasp what I'm saying. Without the religious aspect, these political motivations would not lead to terrorism at the rate they do. Without a belief in Martyrdom, and of divinely sanctioned violence, far, far fewer attacks would happen. Without the promotion of the murder of kuffars, infidels and the like, these attacks would not happen at the rate they do. That's why these attackers yell, "Allahu Akbar", and claim to carry these attacks out in the name of Islam. Are they lying? I say, no.

If you want to see the worst purely political terror can do, look at the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, or the King David hotel bombing, or the Norway Attacks. These killed 33, 91 and 77 people respectively. These events are rare, and supported by relatively few people. Now look at the worst religious terror can do, the Orlando Massacre, the Brussels Bombings, the Paris attacks, or the Nice attack. These attacks killed 49, 32,130 and 85 people respectively. All of these occurred in Western nations, and all occurred in the last 12 months. If we look to the East we see countless Islamic terror attacks reaching 100+ victims, the worst being the Karrada bombing, and related smaller attacks.

ISIS's goals derive from a desire to establish an Islamic caliphate across the Middle East, based on the principles of Salafist Islam. They aim to convert or massacre Shia Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, atheists and other minorities in the are. No doubt they intend to murder homosexuals, oppress women and follow Sharia law. None of these have any political benefit, yet they are subscribed to by not only ISIS, but other Jihadi groups across the Middle East, and many, many civilian sympathisers. To claim their motives have little to do with religion is utterly ridiculous, for most of the foreign and domestic policy of Muslim NATION STATES is based upon Islamic doctrine. Of course the various jihadi groups across the world are inspired even more by religion to commit these heinous acts.

You must also note that most Islamic societies oppress many groups of people. Homosexuality still carries the death penalty in many areas of the Islamic world, and Islamic doctrine guides laws. The Muslim world is, politically, a few hundred years behind everyone else. Most Muslims in the world disagree with Western ideas of liberal democracy, freedom of religion, speech and sexuality, etc. Etc.

Even in Western nations they hold bigoted beliefs at a higher rate than other groups.
Original post by 04MR17
Such a way with words.Donald Trump for one.Yes those few 818 islamophobic crimes in one month (November 2015) in the UK. It's shocking to think that Muslims would make such a big deal of such an insignificant number isn't it?And you know this how?Yes. The so-called Islamic State think that they're victims. Poor them.


Cringing at this post. Up your game, son.
Original post by Seelowe
You don't seem to be able to grasp what I'm saying. Without the religious aspect, these political motivations would not lead to terrorism at the rate they do. Without a belief in Martyrdom, and of divinely sanctioned violence, far, far fewer attacks would happen. Without the promotion of the murder of kuffars, infidels and the like, these attacks would not happen at the rate they do. That's why these attackers yell, "Allahu Akbar", and claim to carry these attacks out in the name of Islam. Are they lying? I say, no.

If you want to see the worst purely political terror can do, look at the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, or the King David hotel bombing, or the Norway Attacks. These killed 33, 91 and 77 people respectively. These events are rare, and supported by relatively few people. Now look at the worst religious terror can do, the Orlando Massacre, the Brussels Bombings, the Paris attacks, or the Nice attack. These attacks killed 49, 32,130 and 85 people respectively. All of these occurred in Western nations, and all occurred in the last 12 months. If we look to the East we see countless Islamic terror attacks reaching 100+ victims, the worst being the Karrada bombing, and related smaller attacks.

ISIS's goals derive from a desire to establish an Islamic caliphate across the Middle East, based on the principles of Salafist Islam. They aim to convert or massacre Shia Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, atheists and other minorities in the are. No doubt they intend to murder homosexuals, oppress women and follow Sharia law. None of these have any political benefit, yet they are subscribed to by not only ISIS, but other Jihadi groups across the Middle East, and many, many civilian sympathisers. To claim their motives have little to do with religion is utterly ridiculous, for most of the foreign and domestic policy of Muslim NATION STATES is based upon Islamic doctrine. Of course the various jihadi groups across the world are inspired even more by religion to commit these heinous acts.

You must also note that most Islamic societies oppress many groups of people. Homosexuality still carries the death penalty in many areas of the Islamic world, and Islamic doctrine guides laws. The Muslim world is, politically, a few hundred years behind everyone else. Most Muslims in the world disagree with Western ideas of liberal democracy, freedom of religion, speech and sexuality, etc. Etc.

Even in Western nations they hold bigoted beliefs at a higher rate than other groups.


Why not? Explain the mechanism for why religion accelerates terror attacks.

They yell out "allahu ackbar" during attacks on westerners because it immediately makes westerners think "OH **** ITS ISIS" and it immediately amplifies the hateful impact of their actions. That's why Omar Mateen phoned saying he was ISIS, even though he had no connections to ISIS whatsoever - they want the west to think ISIS is attacking them, because it distances them from being labelled as lone madmen.

ISIS would not exist without the political unrest that has emerged in the Middle East. No chaos = no room for ISIS to grow. Their goals are political and territorial - they use extremist religion to justify achieving these aims.

And most Muslims don't 'disagree with xyz', them being raised in a different society naturally makes them think their own society is superior - as we do with democracy, despite its flaws. 93% of Muslims say terrorist attacks are never justified in the largest Gallup poll of 35000 Muslims - and of the 7% who do, 100% think its only justifiable for political reasons.
Reply 625
Original post by alevelstresss
Why not? Explain the mechanism for why religion accelerates terror attacks.

They yell out "allahu ackbar" during attacks on westerners because it immediately makes westerners think "OH **** ITS ISIS" and it immediately amplifies the hateful impact of their actions. That's why Omar Mateen phoned saying he was ISIS, even though he had no connections to ISIS whatsoever - they want the west to think ISIS is attacking them, because it distances them from being labelled as lone madmen.

ISIS would not exist without the political unrest that has emerged in the Middle East. No chaos = no room for ISIS to grow. Their goals are political and territorial - they use extremist religion to justify achieving these aims.

And most Muslims don't 'disagree with xyz', them being raised in a different society naturally makes them think their own society is superior - as we do with democracy, despite its flaws. 93% of Muslims say terrorist attacks are never justified in the largest Gallup poll of 35000 Muslims - and of the 7% who do, 100% think its only justifiable for political reasons.


Because religion gives people a divinely ordained reason to commit violent acts, promises them martyrdom and paradise, and makes them believe they are acting to please God.

That is perhaps the most ridiculous comment I've ever read. They scream Allahu Akbar in religious frenzy, for they are committing such acts as part of Jihad, a holy war. Omar Mateen never claimed to be a "part of ISIS" in any organisational sense. He merely pledged allegiance to the group, indicating he supported Islamic extremist causes. To claim religion played no part in Mateen's actions ignores the evidence available.

The goals of ISIS are political goals influenced, guided and formed by their extremist Salifist views. To claim ISIS has nothing to do with religion is potentially the most ridiculous statement one can make. The group justifies its actions with Quranic teachings, aims to emulate Mohammed's life and conquests, enforces Sharia law, converts all under its rule to Sunni Salafism... The mental gymnastics required to state that they are just... Using religion to fulfill political goals that just so happen to fall perfectly in line with extremist Islam is utterly ludicrous.

You need to stop with that flawed Gallup Poll, as I've provided you time and time and time again with reliable sources from respected polling agencies providing far more evidence for the opposite view. One poll with flawed methodology and sampling does not negate the hundreds upon hundreds of other polls. The 7% figure can be found in the book "Who Speaks for Islam?", in which the pair (that is, Mogahed who sees over Islamic Polling and her colleague Esposito) claim that approximately 91 million people, or 7 percent of Muslims worldwide (the percentage who believe the 9/11 attacks were completely justified), can be referred to as "politically radicalized."

One huge problem, as Robert Satloff of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy observed in May 2008, is that Mogahed and Esposito appear to have arrived at the 7 percent figure by understating by almost half the percentage of those who believe 9/11 was completely justified. And the pair completely ignored the additional 23.5 percent who believe 9/11 was partially justified.When Satloff looked at their numbers more closely, he found that the percentage justifying 9/11 was closer to 36 percent, or more than 450 million people. That's about a third of the world's Muslim population.

The fact that most Muslims agree with oppressive and brutal governmental measures is DEMONSTRABLY true. When democratic elections are instituted in Muslim countries, the populace elects extremist officials. This is because much of the populace hold extremist views. This is why the Coalition forces were pushed out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The people did not like the Christian, infidel westerners in their lands.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by KimKallstrom
Cringing at this post. Up your game, son.
That's interesting. Because I was cringing at the one I was replying to. Such folly in this day and age...
Original post by lahorizon
Well tbf and I may not be helping my own argument here, but the majority of people who left Iran after the Shah left, were Jewish or a minority. The muslims remained. But when muslim Iranians have gone abroad, they as far as I know, have hardly caused any trouble compared with South Asian Muslims, so I believe my point remains valid such that it is mostly culture and not religion. In South Asia they practice honour killings and in East Africa they practice FGM. People act like these are Muslim exclusive crimes but it really is regional..
many of original iranian migrants of past where as you say jewish, chrisitan and zoastrian background, fleeing islamist persecution. And you forget it ihasnt jsut been 'south asian' muslims causing islamist violence- tunisians, iranians, morrocans, afganis, somais and nigerians all have been involved in europe alone in recent times. Plus the fact that non muslim south asians ( ie the asians that practice asian fiaths not arabic ones) dont cause the same problems, sort of disproves your claim its all 'national culutre. pakistanis for example ( who i assume youre referring too) have some 300+ years of islamic subjigation from invading arabs and persians andoso their culture has been altered starkly from the rest of asia. and FGM and honour killings and killings in general all go in in islamic societies from asia to africa.you started making the point of how fundamentalist islamist governance changed iran, but you seem to be back tracking by trying now to blame 'culture and nationality and ethnicity' like every islamist tends to do. there is often some overlap, but you are missing the obvious
Original post by alevelstresss
Why not? Explain the mechanism for why religion accelerates terror attacks.

They yell out "allahu ackbar" during attacks on westerners because it immediately makes westerners think "OH **** ITS ISIS" and it immediately amplifies the hateful impact of their actions. That's why Omar Mateen phoned saying he was ISIS, even though he had no connections to ISIS whatsoever - they want the west to think ISIS is attacking them, because it distances them from being labelled as lone madmen.

ISIS would not exist without the political unrest that has emerged in the Middle East. No chaos = no room for ISIS to grow. Their goals are political and territorial - they use extremist religion to justify achieving these aims.
.


islamism and politics go hand in hand in genuine islamic societies - you perhaps arnt educated enough to realise this but if you look back throughout islamic history, all nations were governed politcally, under islamic laws, as for example saudi or iran are today. politics sepratists movements such as that of palestine, are imbued with islamic connations in order to gain support and funding from islamic communities- by linked what is essentially a land dispute with mohammed and past islamic history of conflict with jews. And IS are not the first islamist terrorist grouping fyi i assume you werent born before 2000 but long before you were born, there were islamists operating. they are simply getting more news coverage now in the west than they ever did before. in fact our ignoring of the problem 30 years ago and apologising for islamic terorroism ( as you are doing now i 2016) in other parts of the world is in part to blame for its growth glolbally.
Original post by 04MR17
Such a way with words.Donald Trump for one.Yes those few 818 islamophobic crimes in one month (November 2015) in the UK. It's shocking to think that Muslims would make such a big deal of such an insignificant number isn't it?And you know this how?Yes. The so-called Islamic State think that they're victims. Poor them.


You're becoming obsessed, obviously you're quite upset and are now stalking my comments. As there is nothing of any substance in your comment, it's hardly worth a reply
Original post by AlexanderHam
You're becoming obsessed, obviously you're quite upset and are now stalking my comments. As there is nothing of any substance in your comment, it's hardly worth a reply
Yet you replied...
Original post by 04MR17
Yes. The so-called Islamic State think that they're victims. Poor them.


Islamic State arnt operating in the regions he mentioned- those are other islamist groups ( perhaps you are ignorant to their existence)
Original post by Reformed
Islamic State aren't operating in the regions he mentioned- those are other Islamist groups (perhaps you are ignorant to their existence)
Hi. I was actually doing my best to knock some sense into AlexanderHam (unsuccessfully). Some of the opinions he's displayed on other thread are deeply offensive, completely prejudiced and very inaccurate and sometimes incorrect. I've been trying to correct that, but the abuse I've received since means I've given up, AlexanderHam is a lost cause. Lost to hatred and intolerance.
Original post by 04MR17
Hi. I was actually doing my best to knock some sense into AlexanderHam (unsuccessfully). Some of the opinions he's displayed on other thread are deeply offensive, completely prejudiced and very inaccurate and sometimes incorrect. I've been trying to correct that, but the abuse I've received since means I've given up, AlexanderHam is a lost cause. Lost to hatred and intolerance.
"knock some sense" is a derogatory expression. For all we know, Alexander may have all the sense he needs.

I've read a couple of Alexander's posts, and there seems to be nothing wrong with them (did I miss something in particular) ?

of course, no one forces you to try and "correct" him (just like nothing forces him to try and "correct" you)

we are here to discuss. Whoever thinks he/she has something to contribute, will post. Other people will leave.

If you are personally insulted, report the post. And, that's all

best
(edited 7 years ago)
This whole issue is just made worse in the way that we hate on the whole religion as if we're the only victims of radicalist Muslims, and in the process, ignoring the fact that the real victims of groups like Isis are the ordinary people living in places like Iraq and Syria that are ruled by these extremist groups, with the excuse that "all Muslims are terrorists". While attacks like the more recent ones in Nice and Paris are simply unimaginable, some countries in the Middle East are suffering these attacks almost daily and we either completely turn a blind eye or we quickly forget about it. This is what is so infuriating about this.
Reply 635
I do not worry about terrorism as only a very tiny percentage are affected by it, or killed by it yearly. I do not blame the actions of the few on 1.5 billion people. I do not see islamic terrorism as a real concern.

The real issue is islam. It's scripture's law and basic Islamic culture is toxic and barbaric. Halal is glorified animal torture. Women are seen as property of men. Men are the rulers, taking as many brides as they can support. Child rape within marriage itself is legal. shariah law states if they are not four witnesses to see a woman being raped she is to be punished by death ( a woman was stoned to death in saudi arabia for yes, being raped).

What about muhammad? the 'perfect muslim'? The renowned warlord who purged as many non-muslims from the east as possible, married a toddler (Aisha) at aged 6 and had sex with her at 9, tortured multiple people for gold and treasure, culled dogs and opposed pictures on the wall as they represented Western culture, a slave master, a mass murder of prisoners of war, mass slaver of tribal women and children.

This is dangerous, no one can protect islam anymore as it is a harm to humanity.
Original post by alevelstresss
Christianity and almost all other religions 'cherry pick' too.

Christians are told to abstain from sin, do you think every single Christian in the world has never sinned?

Its not right to focus on Islam as if its the only religion with problems, the fact that many terrorist attacks are done right now by extreme Muslims is because of the situation in the Middle East, brutal regimes have led to war which destroys lives which radicalises people. Evidence of this is the fact that Indonesia and India are relatively well off, despite being higher % Muslims than even the Middle East. If Islam were the sole factor, it would be entirely different.


You cannot compare the two, they are like chalk and cheese.

I suggest you examine and compare the life of Mohammed and the life of Jesus and see the differences.

Christians know that they are sinners and can do nothing in their own strength. That's why we live under the grace of God. The whole purpose of the crucifixion and the resurrection, the two most important aspects of Christian faith, the demonstration of God's love and forgiveness, which are rejected and twisted by Allah 600-800 years later?
Original post by Caes
..... tortured multiple people for gold and treasure, culled dogs and opposed pictures on the wall as they represented Western culture, a slave master, a mass murder of prisoners of war, mass slaver of tribal women and children.

This is dangerous, no one can protect islam anymore as it is a harm to humanity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5RmKuCFTeI
Original post by lcwalsh13
This whole issue is just made worse in the way that we hate on the whole religion as if we're the only victims of radicalist Muslims, and in the process, ignoring the fact that the real victims of groups like Isis are the ordinary people living in places like Iraq and Syria that are ruled by these extremist groups, with the excuse that "all Muslims are terrorists". While attacks like the more recent ones in Nice and Paris are simply unimaginable, some countries in the Middle East are suffering these attacks almost daily and we either completely turn a blind eye or we quickly forget about it. This is what is so infuriating about this.


And this is the thing that needs to be avoided by the rest of the world. Who kills and are the most killed? Muslims killing each other.

https://www.indy100.com/article/isis-kill-mostly-muslims-manchester-kabul-7768751

Quick Reply

Latest