Debunking "Ethnic minorities face 'entrenched' racial inequality"

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1) Maybe whites are more likely to run the BBC, CNN and other corporations you listed because they were formed and created in white majority countries.

Original post by jake4198

3) Prejudice mightn't be justified, but it's most certainly not illogical. Black men commit over 50% of all violent crimes in the capital, even though they account for 13% of London's overall population. In the US, black men are responsible for over 50% of the country's murders even though they account for 13% of the country's population as well. Of course, that doesn't mean we should judge all black people because of the actions of others', but it does explain why the prejudice exists.

You can throw as many stats as you want. There is a difference between facts and truth.

It's a statistical fact that more people more are killed yearly by Cars than Crocodiles. So according to raw facts are you to make claim than cars are more violent than Croc's ? Nope. Because it's taken out of context

If you are participating in a statistical research project that demonstrates that some "racial" groups are more violent than others, then yes, you are more likely than not involved in a racist enterprise.

If this scientific research then has the most curious and interesting repeated finding that blacks are always the most violent group, then you are most certainly involved in a project which furthers white supremacy.

If you look around the room and your fellow researchers who are making this amazing discovery are almost all white, then you are most definitely involved in a white racist project. If one is cool with that then so be it; do not run away from the implications of that choice.

You see for your argument to work then you must assume that the world is a 100% just and a 100% fair. You need to assume that the police are not racist. The courts are not racist, which is rarely the case.

You cannot get statistics on the number of crimes committed by black and white people, only the number of arrests and convictions.

We cannot get statistics on which of the convicted people are guilty, since we can only have the opinion of the court system as to their guilt, and that opinion assumes guilt from the fact of conviction.

Further, even if all convicted persons are guilty, that does not necessarily mean that their sentences are just or fair, or untouched by racism. Longer sentences for black people will make the prison system majority black even when arrests are not majority black.

The bottom line you or more than likely anyone in TSR or in fact anyone you know has never been attacked by a black person, never been evicted by a black person, never had a black person deny you a job, and you've never heard a black person say, "We're going to eliminate 300 jobs here — have a nice day!"

Every mean word. Every bit of pain and suffering in your life has had a white face attached tot it.

Original post by jake4198

4) I don't disagree with this point. Racism is hard to prove. And where it exists, we should denounce it unequivocally. However, we cannot just blame everything on racism. It doesn't help anything or anyone. Racism does exist - and it's disgraceful. However, to proclaim it's the most pertinent factor inhibiting black people is an unfounded falsity and doesn't stand up to systemic evidence. If racism did exist in the US for instance, then explain how Asian and Hispanic Americans are doing so well.

You are just as racist as those white guys on stormfront. Like you they use 'stats' to justify there racism

Racism in 2016 is not a racism were people say "Kill these blacks". Racism is saying things - RIGHT UP UNTIL - it's clearly a racist statement.

So people will not say "Black people are violent savages" but they will throw out these 'stats' about so called crime and murder rates

They won't say "Black people are stupid" but they will throw out stats about black people having a low IQ.

They say think things that lead up to an obvious conclusion "Black people are violent and stupid"

At one level yours is just a cheap attempt to change the subject. Whites know they live in an unequal society where whites benefit and blacks get screwed.

Since you want to believe you are a good person you either fight against that inequality – or make up excuses.

Making up excuses is way easier. If you can blame blacks, then you have no reason to feel guilty at all.

Then you can still see yourself as a good person.

Case closed.

So in the end we know all about what is wrong with blacks, because that makes white people feel better about themselves, but very little is said about what is wrong with white people and the white racism built into society.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 41

Maker

Original post by jake4198

I don't care about Asians as a people, but rather their success in gaining access to the middle class as a result of their admirable work ethic.

Allow me to show you the correlation:

Here is the average SAT results (the US's equivalent of A levels) by ethnicity in the United States:

As you can see, black Americans are the lowest performing group out of all the US's main demographic profiles.

So, how does the correlate at university?

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/eliteenrollment-large.jpg

As you can see, Asian and white students are much more likely to attend an Ivy League university than their black (and Hispanic) counterpart(s) because they do better in their SATs.

And herein you get the differential in pay:

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4f3d4337eab8eaef54000042/newlyweds-race-earnings-pew.gif

Your data also shows Asians are much more intelligent than whites.

Reply 42

username1022139

Original post by PrincePaul4

And that's how the system of white supremacy works. Systems are the name of the game.

In the English-speaking world, you learn most of what you know about the world at large from English-speaking white men, from 2.2% of that world, a 2.2% that has racist view on things. So that on it's own should be a warning against being overly dependent on any one part of the world for your knowledge of the world as a whole.

You can throw as many stats as you want. There is a difference between facts and truth.

It's a statistical fact that more people more are killed yearly by Cars than Crocodiles. So according to raw facts are you to make claim than cars are more violent than Croc's ? Nope. Because it's taken out of context

If you are participating in a statistical research project that demonstrates that some "racial" groups are more violent than others, then yes, you are more likely than not involved in a racist enterprise.

If this scientific research then has the most curious and interesting repeated finding that blacks are always the most violent group, then you are most certainly involved in a project which furthers white supremacy.

If you look around the room and your fellow researchers who are making this amazing discovery are almost all white, then you are most definitely involved in a white racist project. If one is cool with that then so be it; do not run away from the implications of that choice.

You see for your argument to work then you must assume that the world is a 100% just and a 100% fair. You need to assume that the police are not racist. The courts are not racist, which is rarely the case.

You cannot get statistics on the number of crimes committed by black and white people, only the number of arrests and convictions.

We cannot get statistics on which of the convicted people are guilty, since we can only have the opinion of the court system as to their guilt, and that opinion assumes guilt from the fact of conviction.

Further, even if all convicted persons are guilty, that does not necessarily mean that their sentences are just or fair, or untouched by racism. Longer sentences for black people will make the prison system majority black even when arrests are not majority black.

The bottom line you or more than likely anyone in TSR or in fact anyone you know has never been attacked by a black person, never been evicted by a black person, never had a black person deny you a job, and you've never heard a black person say, "We're going to eliminate 300 jobs here — have a nice day!"

Every mean word. Every bit of pain and suffering in your life has had a white face attached tot it.

You are just as racist as those white guys on stormfront. Like you they use 'stats' to justify there racism

Racism in 2016 is not a racism were people say "Kill these blacks". Racism is saying things - RIGHT UP UNTIL - it's clearly a racist statement.

So people will not say "Black people are violent savages" but they will throw out these 'stats' about so called crime and murder rates

They won't say "Black people are stupid" but they will throw out stats about black people having a low IQ.

They say think things that lead up to an obvious conclusion "Black people are violent and stupid"

At one level yours is just a cheap attempt to change the subject. Whites know they live in an unequal society where whites benefit and blacks get screwed.

Since you want to believe you are a good person you either fight against that inequality – or make up excuses.

Making up excuses is way easier. If you can blame blacks, then you have no reason to feel guilty at all.

Then you can still see yourself as a good person.

Case closed.

So in the end we know all about what is wrong with blacks, because that makes white people feel better about themselves, but very little is said about what is wrong with white people and the white racism built into society.

Yet, there seems to be an underlying conspiracy among black communities that there is a system working against the prosperity of black men and women even though there is no evidence to suggest it. If systemic racism does exist, then explain why it's inhibiting black communities more than it is Asian and Hispanic ones? If there is a system working against minorities, then explain why Asians in the US Asians are the most successful race demographic even though they account for less than 10% of America's entire population?

When you look at the average earnings of black Americans in the US, there seems to an overriding correlation between academic attainment and eventual income. As I have shown in my earlier posts, black Americans achieve the lowest scores in the GPAs than any other ethnic group in the US and therefore they are much more likely not to go to a top-tier university. If anything, black Americans have more of an advantage when applying to university because further study shows that blacks are more likely than Asians, whites and Hispanics to be admitted for the same course even though they achieve a lower GPA. When it comes to academic attainment: Asians, whites, Hispanics and blacks achieve the highest scores in that order; and when it comes to average earnings: Asians, whites, Hispanics and blacks achieve the average income in that order as well. GPA exams do not have a racial bias, so explain to me the underachievement of black Americans? And also explain how you can ignore the underachievement of black Americans in the job market when they do more poorly at school than any other age demographic?

A similar trend is evident here in the UK. Black Britons are less likely to achieve three A levels including two facilitating subjects than their white and Asians counterparts. Again, A level exams do not have a racial bias, so to me it makes perfect sense why blacks are underrepresented at university and their academic attainment also explains why they achieve a lower average graduate salary because they're more likely to go to a non-Russell Group university.

The biggest problem with the black community, both here in the UK and in the US, is the atrocious single motherhood rates which are existent in black households. Compared to Asian and white households, black children are much more likely not to grow up in a nuclear family which leads many young black children to follow a pattern of crime and disorder. According to the University of Pennsylvania, young boys (of any race) who grow up without a father are six times more likely not to finish High School; and young boys who don't finish High School are twelve times more likely to be in prison by the age of 30. Again, the correlation is supported by cognitive theory and understanding of the issues which arise from single-parenthood.

When it comes to whites owning most of power in the English-speaking world, a lot of what you have proclaimed is nothing short of an abhorrent generalisation which frames all whites as closet racists who have no sympathy towards the failings in many minority communities. I'm white, but my mum is mixed race - my extended family are black Caribbeans who live in the Dominican Republic. I have no problem with black people and a lot of childhood involved being exposed to black culture. Black people are literally part of family. However, that doesn't mean my affiliation with the black community should defer any comprehension of cogent factual evidence which proves that systemic institutional racism is not the most pertinent factor inhibiting the black community. As I have mentioned before, evidence shows a direct correlation between academic attainment and income - and the academic attainment of blacks in real terms has nothing to do with racial discrimination. On a more philosophical basis, academic attainment can be attributed to single-motherhood rates as black communities have the highest single-motherhood rates whereas Asians communities have the lowest.

Here we come to the part of the argument where you misquoting what I conveyed. I didn't say that prejudices aren't racist, however I did say that having a prejudice is not illogical. If there were three people: a white person, a black person and an Asian person - and you were told to say which was is most likely to be the criminal without having any other evidence, any logical person would say the black person because they commit most of the violent crime in the United States. Although such a presumption mightn't be illogical, it is racist. I agree. People who judge a person by the colour of their skin are racist - like you are by generalising all whites. Therefore, although prejudices might be racist, they are not illogical. Nevertheless, I didn't once say that was a mitigation for racism and nor did I say that we should therefore judge black communities because of their overrepresentation in crime.

Does racism exist? Yes. It does. And where it exists it should be denounced. However, even though I have outlined a cogent argument against systemic racism in many regards you have still employed the victim narrative which doesn't stand up to interrogation. Fact are the truth, and while many facts can be put out of context, black crime is an epidemic and to dismiss that as racial profiling is evidence of what the true problem is: being in-denial.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 43

username1022139

Original post by Maker

Your data also shows Asians are much more intelligent than whites.

Asians earn more than whites in the US.

Reply 44

PrincePaul5

Original post by jake4198

Two different ethnicities with two different histories when dealing with the West.

Two vastly different immigration policies, now and historically. And Asians have a much higher percentage of recent immigrants than black people both here and theUS.

I mean -If you truly believed that Asians are culturally superior and add to the quality of schools and workplaces, then why aren’t you clamoring for a massive increase in immigration from Asian nations ?

Why not flood the borders, since we could all benefit from a little more Asian genius?Why not have white CEOs step down from their positions and let Japanese managers take their place?

Hmmm ?

Racism comes in part from the hang-ups white people have about people not being white.

So - YES - Some of it will apply to anyone who is not white. That part applies to both blacks and Asians.

But most of the racism comes from the need to excuse the unfair advantages whites have, something that grows out of their ugly, skinhead past of genocide, slavery and Jim Crow. That part applies more to blacks than to Asians.

That makes blacks away bigger threat to white self-image – and tax rates – than Asians.Therefore whites need to think that there is something profoundly wrong with black people.

You seem to have the arrogance that you can speak for the brilliance of Asians but why are the people who always point how great Asians are doing are never Asians themselves ?

Because I think about the Asian women working twelve hours a day in sweatshops in Manilla and Hong Kong and all over Asia to make clothes for people like you

I think, how are they doing so well ?

I think about Asian families up here in Liverpool whose members have to put in eighty hours a week just to keep their heads above water

I think, how are they doing so well ?

I think about the Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi taxidrivers who endure crappy working conditions, get called "paki"and customers who get pissy about their accents.

I think, how are they doing so well ?.

I think about the Asian women who burkas and get spat in the street for being a muslim

I think, how are they doing so well ?

I think about Mosques up here in Liverpool who have had bricks thrown there windows and get called "bin Laden" from passers by

I think, how are they doing so well ?

I think Asians in Rochdale who are still catching hell because of that child sex thing a few years and Asians leaders to this day still have grovel and beg white people for forgiveness

And I think, how are they doing so well.

To claim superior Asian genes or culture as the reasons for achievement in the requires you to ignore the rampant poverty of persons from the same backgrounds in their countries of origin.

There is no shortage, after all, of desperately poor Asians in the slums of Manila, Calcutta and Hong Kong.

I would like to see how well these “Asians” would do, if their first, second, third, fourth, fifth and lets say sixth generations were slaves and after that they would be kicked out to handle themselves in the face of deeply ingrained cultural racism.

How would these geniuses manage with no education, no money, no funds, no clothes?

Would they outscore white in schools, in their own schools that is, not in the sameones the whites are going?

Would they surge to the top of the society from their ghettos were they would beforced to live in by institutional racism?

For Example - How many leading American Asians come from the China Towns ofUSA? According to your argument, they all should. But do they ?

And yes,lets not forget the Tamils and those from Bangledesh ?

How many of them are thriving in UK or USA society?

How many tamils and Bangladesh are among the top scorers? They should be theresince they Asians too!

Imagine if America was built by Chinese slave labour and most of the Africans that were allowed into the country were doctors and engineers and university students, though some poor Africans were allowed in after America’s misadventures in the Angolan War. Would it then be right to to say:

“Look how well the Africans do! They come here with nothing, and they’re not even white! What’s wrong with the Chinese? It can’t be racism.”

Even if I was to accept that groups victimized by racism can “make it” It would still be like you having your leg leg blown off in an industrial accident, and then me saying "Yeah but many people with one leg have gone on to succeed. Stop your moaning"

Reply 45

username1022139

Original post by PrincePaul71

To Jake4198

Couple of things to remember. TSR deletes my account. They always do that with black people. They don't allow black men on here unless they parrot the same white supremacist stuff that you spout. So I will debunk all your talk points.

But it will be in a different name. Though the PrincePaul will still be the same. Especially the education argument. But your points were just bog standard white supremacist talking points that I have heard million times of times. But I will be back on them tomorrow.

No, TSR does not ban your accounts because you are black, but rather because you're a pathetic racial supremacist who incites hate and violence against people who are white. Over the past hour, I have had three messagers warning me of your history on this forum and I am not going to waste any more of my time debating a paranoid loser. Instead of making a new accounts and using topless photos as your profile picture, perhaps you should reside to a hole where your heinous bigotry will be more welcome.

Reply 46

Pegasus2

Original post by Maker

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2009/oct/18/racism-discrimination-employment-undercover

Your source material is an article in .....The Guardian.....

Reply 47

username1022139

Original post by Zamusa

Post I made in another thread:

It appears this is the thread for this fortnight.

The Student Room does not align itself with a political Adel so your saying it's a far left website is just not true.

Just because people don't pander to political correctness, that does not make them racists or white nationalists. If you have no evidence to prove I'm either of the aforesaid, stop being so immature and offensive.

Reply 48

PrincePaul71

Original post by jake4198

Where have I said that black people are superior to white people ? Where ? I mean if I'm this bad bad racial supremacist.

Where is your evidence ?

I'm not the one unlike who does post saying whites are stupid. White people are more violent. But you do the same about black people and I'm the racial supremacist ?

How does that work ?

I have no problem going head to head with white supremacist like yourself. My issue. Let it be challenged. What is TSR so scared of ?

But I get it. You live in such a white world that your white way of looking at the world is rarely challenged and so you do not even notice that it is there.

That is why my posts hit a raw nerve with you and others they come from beyond the white way you look at the world.

Reply 49

Maker

Original post by Pegasus2

Your source material is an article in .....The Guardian.....

Sorry, the Express was fresh out.

Reply 50

countingdown

Hey, anyone interested in some data relating to the topic under discussion?

"Once educational characteristics are taken into account, most ethnic minority groups have a higher likelihood of being unemployed than their White peers."

but looking at raw data:

"Some groups, such as Indians and Black Africans, manage to have higher earnings than their White peers"

and

"The results from these models show that employed graduates in the Indian and Black African groups do better than their White peers. However, female Bangladeshi graduates have lower earnings than their White peers. In most instances, male graduates’ earnings compared to their White peers were higher than females’, especially for Indian graduates."
http://www.runnymedetrust.org/upload...IsntEnough.pdf