Five men arrested by West Midlands anti-terror police

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A bigger question, for me, is why western-educated people (with or without bad times in their lives) are prepared to believe preposterous superstitions from the seventh century

As my friend says "idiot is an idiot, no matter how many classes he attended to", but I don't think biology is the only or even main reason in case of fanatism (however schizotypal personality disorder and schizophrenia probably are problems of many fanatics).

Still, I would insist on looking for a source of the problem in our education systems. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm rather ignorant on UK's educational system, I just presume that around Europe it works similar). Many things are lacking in my opinion. We tend to give lots of scientifical data to children, that they have to memorise, though their understanding may be lacking. (I'm a good example of such problem with maths. I have never had a good teacher, and though I had quite good marks from math, and though an opinion of some supposedly competent persons was that my intelligence is above average, I begin to understand basics of maths at university, when some day I started solving some excersises on my own, not remembering how to do this, just figuring things out)

I've met several persons who, though received modern education, rejected modern science in favor of Bible, and discussions showed that the had vast gaps in knowledge they supposedly should have in school, and their logic was flawed.

I believe, that on early levels of education, more stress should be put on logic and philosophy. Of course, in properly adjusted way, that would make everything understandable for kids and so they would see a connection beetwen logic and the world (like Philip pseudo Plato destribes in his "Epinomis" :wink:

. Religious studies would also come in handy. Of course, still different sciences outh to me taught, but in a way that would assure understanding, method should always be explained as well. Maybe even lessons on literature should be limited in favour of these subjects.
Even though I loved to read books, the least useful thing to me, was literature. I actually had hard time getting rid of many misconceptions and paranoic thinking I've learned from crazy views and fancy language of old literature, while some flaws in my logic were fixed only when I attended to course of philosophy and had to understand presocratic philosophers.

Reply 121

admonit

Original post by alevelstresss

they don't feel better with Islam, they feel better with extremist, warped Islam that ISIS purports/encourages

Still it is Islam and still they are Muslims, brought up in Muslim communities and in Muslim families.

Reply 122

alevelstresss

Original post by admonit

Still it is Islam and still they are Muslims, brought up in Muslim communities and in Muslim families.

that's like saying Nazism is right wing

vague, unspecific, uninformative

please wake up

Reply 123

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

Oh my ******* God, you're a hopeless individual.
You keep on crying that Islam is the sole cause.

Do a fraction of what I did and PROVE IT. LINK ME ONE TERRORIST WHO WAS SOLELY MOTIVATED BY ISLAM, and NOTHING went wrong in their lives beforehand.

Reply 124

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

And I'll be extremely generous here and show you anyway. One of the girls who joined IS had their mother get cancer, that constitutes to what I'm talking about.

So, if your argument is valid we should see a sizable percentage of people whose immediate family have been diagnosed with terminal cancer, going on to commit terrorist attacks.

Guess what?
We don't.

Regardless of the backstory, there is always one common factor in the lives of Islamist extremists. Can you guess what it is?

I'm willing to bet £500 that if this hadn't happened, she wouldn't have done this.

Considering that neither of her two companions' mothers had been diagnosed with terminal cancer, it would seem reasonable that she would. So I'll take that bet.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 125

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

I blocked QE2 ages ago, but I'll visit his point. The reason that a lot people who have traumatic events in their lives don't become radicalised is because none of them have extremist groups supporting their hatred. An angry, hateful Muslim has IS who are willing to justify and politicise their hatred into anti-west sentiment. The average white person in the UK, or a Hindu or a Buddhist does not have this same thing. That's why.

So, you admit that the difference between your average traumatised person and the traumatised person who commits terrorist attacks is Islam, and without the Islamic element, they would not commit the terrorism.

I rest my case, M'lud.

Reply 126

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

Every single terrorist who attacked the west "in the name of ISIS" had something go wrong in their life in the run up to it. That is a fact, that is some three to four dozen people, two odd cases, who aren't technically terrorists, does not change the dynamic of the situation.

Let me give you a hand with those goalposts, they look heavy.

The argument is about Islamist terrorism, not recent ISIS attacks.
And even then, it is clear that not every supporter of ISIS has a traumatised backstory.

So whichever way you look at it, your argument fails.

However, please don't walk away. You are providing so many people with so much amusement.

Reply 127

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

they don't feel better with Islam, they feel better with extremist, warped Islam that ISIS purports/encourages

If you knew anything about Islam, you would know that ISIS favours a literalist, unmodernised, retentionist version of Islam.
In reality, it is among the least "warped" of the interpretations as it stays closest to the original.

I know I've said it before, but if you are going to be an apologist for Islam, you really should know at least a little about it. Just a thought.

Reply 128

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

My traumatic A-levels? Hahahah, I just got into Warwick university for physics with AAA in maths, further maths and physics respectively.

You'll need to improve your comprehension and analytical skills then.
I'm doing my environmental modelling PhD at Warwick. Ooh, this should be fun!

Reply 129

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

Either grow up or fix your reading impairment

Everyone has **** happen to them, but only Muslims have an extremist group which has the capacity to politicise their hateful feelings into a will to commit terrorist atrocities in their name.

And what is it that separates these people from others who do not become Islamist terrorists? (remember that we are not just talking about ISIS, but global Islamist terrorism over the last 20 years or so).

Exactly, as you say, they are radicalised to commit violent acts by a literalist, unmodernised version of Islam. And as you so rightly observed, without this Islamist element, they would almost certainly not be radicalised into violent terrorists.

You have ably explained that there is a vital, Islamic element to Islamist terrorism, whithout which, there would be no Islamist terrorism.
Well done!