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black/white guys muscles/bones question

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    Hey just a quick question, this guy at uni once claimed that black guys have a higher muscle density than white guys which explains why they are better built for sprinting. This i can believe. However when we asked him why it is mainly white guys who are successful at swimming he claimed it was because black guys have "heavy bones". we laughed at him but were we right to? is there any truth in it?
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    (Original post by fletchinator)
    Hey just a quick question, this guy at uni once claimed that black guys have a higher muscle density than white guys which explains why they are better built for sprinting. This i can believe. However when we asked him why it is mainly white guys who are successful at swimming he claimed it was because black guys have "heavy bones". we laughed at him but were we right to? is there any truth in it?
    There may be some truth in that, but I think the following factors have far more weight:
    • the majority of the black population reside in less economically developed countries where swimming is not exactly a significant interest

    • the cultures from which black people generally arise may not put much emphasis on swimming as a viable sport


    Essentially what I am hinting at is that the variation between individuals is so great that most of performance in most fields is determined by individual characteristics rather than race characteristics.
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    From Wiki:

    "It has been noted in media such as the Wall Street Journal that some groups such as African American and other minorities in the US are underrepresented among swimmers, particularly competitive swimmers. Some research in the 1960s, since discredited as spurious and unscientific, described blacks as recently as being inherently less buoyant and disadvantaged in water, and coaches have lost their jobs over statements in support of such theories. Nonetheless, statistically, black children between 10 and 14 drown at 4.5 times the rate of white children,[citation needed] most likely as a result of inadequate aquatic resources in some communities, less awareness, less swim accessory marketing in some communities and a dearth of black competitive swimmers, especially at the national level. Cost factors associated with competitive swimming also serve to discourage minority participation in the sport, as predominantly minority communities tend to be poorer and cannot afford it. This also explains higher drowning rates of black children. In light of this, a swimming requirement at some Ivy League colleges has been criticized as unfair to minorities."
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    thanks for your help. I knew he was talking some *******s.
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    From Wiki:

    "It has been noted in media such as the Wall Street Journal that some groups such as African American and other minorities in the US are underrepresented among swimmers, particularly competitive swimmers. Some research in the 1960s, since discredited as spurious and unscientific, described blacks as recently as being inherently less buoyant and disadvantaged in water, and coaches have lost their jobs over statements in support of such theories. Nonetheless, statistically, black children between 10 and 14 drown at 4.5 times the rate of white children,[citation needed] most likely as a result of inadequate aquatic resources in some communities, less awareness, less swim accessory marketing in some communities and a dearth of black competitive swimmers, especially at the national level. Cost factors associated with competitive swimming also serve to discourage minority participation in the sport, as predominantly minority communities tend to be poorer and cannot afford it. This also explains higher drowning rates of black children. In light of this, a swimming requirement at some Ivy League colleges has been criticized as unfair to minorities."
    This sounds as spuriously scienfitic as the theory that blacks cant swim. Are they puttign all these statistics down to a lack of swimming pools in poor areas? Do they assume there is some sort of wall between where black peope life and where other people live? there isnt a swimming pool for miles around me and you can get in for nothing if you have these subsidy tickets. I dont know if its the same price wise elsewhere but its not as if community swimming pools are ten a penny in white (wealthier) areas and not in black ones. White people and black people life in the same city and so can use the same resources, which are usually near the centre anyway. The only descrininatory factor is price, but paying for a swim is damn cheap.
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    (Original post by fletchinator)
    thanks for your help. I knew he was talking some *******s.
    It is actually true that black people have different shaped skeletons
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    i can sort of understand where the argument that black men have dencer bones comes from. It ties in with the muscularity argument. You need a heavier skeleton normally to carry a large set of muscles. ITs only through using supplements/uber hard work that you can get your body to have muscle levels above your normal frame size, and you usually lose that state if you dont constantly train. That said, the idea that denser bones make you sink is rediculous. It also doesnt mean all black people have denser skeletons, though naturally muscular people do tend to have a 'strong frame' that their muscle hangs from, but this can be true for any race. The only difference is it seems many top atheles are black, so a larger proportion fo them than whites must be athletically gifted.
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    I don't buy the argument that there are no black swimmers because of the socio-economic reason. There are always exceptions to the rule, tiger woods? golf is certainly more exclusive than swimming. tennis is as well, but who won wimbledon?

    I have read it is true that it is something I know nothing about "twitch fibres" that are better in black people, which is linked to a quick contraction of the muscle (very important, for example, in running).

    "naturally muscular people do tend to have a 'strong frame' that their muscle hangs from, but this can be true for any race"

    - do you not think it is the other way round? the bones came first then the large muscles develop to support them?
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    God knows if black guys have heavier bones, though I highly doubt its sufficiently heavier to make them crap swimmers. All socio-economic disadvantage crap, is crap I don't buy into.

    Same genus, I train on and off with three black (Afro-Caribbean) guys at the moment and they are the biggest, meanest mutha ****ers I know and, they have bodies which are amazing with the strength to match. Anecdotally for me at least they can build muscle far easier and in better proportion but its ok, because they cant play tennis for **** :p:
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    Hey just a quick question, this guy at uni once claimed that black guys have a higher muscle density than white guys which explains why they are better built for sprinting. This i can believe. However when we asked him why it is mainly white guys who are successful at swimming he claimed it was because black guys have "heavy bones". we laughed at him but were we right to? is there any truth in it?
    Black people having a higher muscle density? There is such a variation in all aspects of life, its pretty random. I don't know of any genetic reasons why black people have higher muscle densities. Then that would put it down to lifestyle. Generally, black people are from poorer backgrounds and are work likely to be doing more physical jobs, making them stronger and fitter than people who work in offices. I know a farmer who is about 5ft8 and can lift 70kg sheep around and chuck them over fences, on the other side of it i know people who work in offices, same height and build, but who struggle to lift a box of paper?

    TBH some of our physiological characteristics are largely affected by our lifestyles. A black guy who doesn't work out at all and has an office job is likely to be in much the same physical condition as a white bloke who works in an office and doesn't work out.

    Black guys having denser bones? Your bones get denser under the stimulus of exercise and resistance training, that is why its being used to counteract osteoporosis. Its a natural reaction, it isn't down to ethnicity. Sure, a muscly black guy will probably have denser bones than a white guy who doesn't work out, but then, the opposite would be true(black guy not working out, white guy working out).

    The swimming issue is largely down to culture and social background. Generally black people are from poorer backgrounds and have a lower income, its a fact. They simply don't have the money and/or access to take swimming seriously. Sure, you can get into a swimming pool for free, but professional coaching and the equipment and training aids all cost money, it simply prohibits them from partaking in a similar way to a white person from a poor background. Anyone remember Eddie the Eel? I can't remember where he was from, he was representing his country (which was very poor) and he used to practice in the swimming pool of a local hotel. He couldn't afford any professional training or any of the apparel that the elite wear(the suits made using shark skin technology), and, needless to say, his swimming was pretty shocking and he was the only one representing his country at swimming in the Olympics.

    Then there's the culture issue. Black/ethnic people don't generally swim, ski, go hiking, own pets, etc. I don't know why, but its just the trend, whether they don't see it as enjoyable or disapprove, etc, i don't know, of course their economic background does probably affect that. When i was skiing in Austria, there were thousands of skiers in the area, in one week we saw one black bloke, no Asians, no Africans, no South Americans, etc. Its the same with black people owning pets, it just doesn't happen. Go to a popular dog walking area and just look out, you will almost certainly not see any black people with their dogs(maybe they lock them in cages?). Its the same with the veterinary profession, in my year of 110, there are about 5 visible ethic minorities. Maybe they just don't like pets? Maybe they're allergic to fur? I don't know.

    I don't buy the argument that there are no black swimmers because of the socio-economic reason. There are always exceptions to the rule, tiger woods? golf is certainly more exclusive than swimming. tennis is as well, but who won wimbledon?
    Of course there are exceptions, but there are exceptions to everything. You can't argue that because Woods is around that socio-economic backgrounds are affecting how black/ethnic people are under represented in sport. In certain sports there is a severe under representation of black and ethnic athletes. Most of that is due to coming from a poor background. Tiger Woods was from quite a rich/middle class background, that is almost certainly why he has succeeded where other black sportsmen haven't. It is getting better now with scholarships and such available, but sports are still quite prohibitive to people from poor backgrounds, just like most poor people cannot afford to go to a private school.
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    you racists
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    cough* zig heil *cough
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    I read that there was a study which showed on average black people produce more testosterone than white people. ill post the article when i find it
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    - do you not think it is the other way round? the bones came first then the large muscles develop to support them?
    thats exacly what i said isnt it?
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    There is a difference between blacks and whites in terms of bone structure and density or whatever fancy term you wish to give it

    If I go to the gym with a white friend of mine, I find that within a week, my body starts to change and tone up quicker than hers does. Blacks are more heavier than whites and asians

    The countries in Africa are also land locked and not much emphasis is put on swimming. Saying that my grandad is a very good swimmer as he started swimming from a young age and took an interest in it. The only reason I started to swim was because I realised I had to if I was ever going to pass my PADI course (my instructor actually gave me a one week training)

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