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If God exists, then who created HIM? HE DOESN'T EXIST!

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Great points though guys, super interesting to read.
God created universe. No one created him.
Energy is the first thing that created everything - the first ever substance. That energy core is God. Nobody created it, because energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can be interchanged. :3
Original post by Pinkberry_y
He's got the whole world, in his hands, he's got the whole world in his hands


I think you mean she's got the whole world in her hands.
Original post by Trichakra
God created universe. No one created him.


His mum?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
His mum?


Then who is his mom?
Original post by Trichakra
Then who is his mom?


Mummy God?

Conversations like this, that's how religions got started. :teehee:
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by hateme
Atheist here
What started the big bang, what was there to create the big bang?


I'm going to answer this now, since I don't think anyone else has yet on this thread;
One of the most current theories (and the one I quite like actually, i find it quite elegant once you get your head 'round it) is that this universe is not alone. It is in fact one of an infinite number of universes, born out of an infinite plane of energy. These births are caused by dips, or 'valleys' within the plane, where the energy is so great that matter is formed, and we know this as the Big Bang.

You may then just say, well, then, where did this energy plane come from? Isn't this just moving back the date to the question of how was reality created??
As far as I understand, the intrinsic nature of quantum mechanics states that matter can be created out of nothing, as long as it instantly annihilates itself in a matter/anti-matter collision. However, due to the (and this is where, if I remember, things get quite odd) 'repulsive gravity' that exists on this plane of energy, the particles are ripped apart, and so the plane is created.

I quite like this theory, as it also manages to explain some of the quirks of the Big Bang, such as inflation.

This may not be completely accurate, it just what I remember from an episode of Horizons that dealt with the subject, and a from a chapter of 'What a wonderful world' by Marcus Chown.

Remember, I am a chemist, not a physicist, so feel free to question anything on this post, as I may well have not remembered it properly...
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I think you mean she's got the whole world in her hands.


Soz if this is triggering
Original post by CatusStarbright
Because the minute people stop respecting difference is when the persecution starts.


Slippery slope fallacy.
Original post by BrainJuice
No one. That can easily be proven logically from the fact that if there wasn't a First Cause there would be an INFINITE REGRESS and nothing at all would come to existence. Just imagine the example of a Sniper, he's waiting to shoot his target but first he must ask someone above him in rank for permission, and when he asks they say the same thing - they need to ask someone else, if this continuous forever the Sniper will never get to shoot. But as you can see, our world is here, it began to exist, the chain ended somewhere.

The reason why you think that this is a good question is because everything around you has been created by God, and so you assume that He must have also began to exist because everything else has.


I'm sorry, but surely the Big Bang would count as the First Cause of the universe, which is in turn, like I describe in my last post, caused by an infinite energy plane.... leading all the way back to a single, random, quantum event that started this whole shebang in the first place. Therefore, surely this acts the First Cause of the universe, along with all of reality?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by abc_123_
I'm not religious, but according to Thomas Aquinas's Cosmological Argument everything has a cause (e.g. I was late to school. I was late to school because my car broke down. My car broke down because it's crap etc in a chain). There has to be a first cause because an infinite chain of causes and effects is impossible. Therefore, the Earth must have a first cause. Only God is powerful enough to be the first cause. Therefore God must exist.

Not sure how God exists ... maybe he was created when dust and stuff came together or formed himself?

Personally I am an atheist so I don't believe in God :/ x

Spoiler

Original post by Shipreck
Slippery slope fallacy.


Not necessarily. I admit to making a slight generalisation, but there are many incidents in history where intolerance has escalated to persecution. For example, when Christianity was just a fledgling, the Jews persecuted them as they could not accept their beliefs.
Reply 73
There's design in evolution and so design in the universe suggests a creator, the creator being god. Look at the watch Analogy, if u stubble across a watch u assume there's a creator for such design but why don't we think the same when we see a rock ? Design in the universe example is that all mammals have a certain number of teats to match the number of offspring at one time
- teleological argument

The universe is a long chain of cause and effects, this goes back to the beginning of time and time began with the creation of the universe. As the universe had a beginning it will have an end ( contingent ) a contingent universe needs a necessary being this being god. God must be distinct from the universe to create it ( e.g. U can't make a box while being in the box )
- cosmological argument aquinas



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How convenient is it that whenever science proves something, Christians suddenly remember that God already said he caused it to happen *cough cough* evolution.
There is the same amount of evidence for God existing as there is for a magic unicorn blessing my balls to explode into glitter at the same time every year, except only I can see it. If you can't disprove it then obviously it must be right.
Original post by That'sGreat
How convenient is it that whenever science proves something, Christians suddenly remember that God already said he caused it to happen *cough cough* evolution.


Not necessarily. That is merely their way of explaining such things from their religious perspective. It is better that they accept the science and say that God caused it than to completely reject the idea, right? To use your example, I think it's more open-minded for a Christian to claim God caused evolution that to reject the idea altogether, despite the overwhelming supporting evidence.
Original post by Jane453
There's design in evolution and so design in the universe suggests a creator, the creator being god. Look at the watch Analogy, if u stubble across a watch u assume there's a creator for such design but why don't we think the same when we see a rock ? Design in the universe example is that all mammals have a certain number of teats to match the number of offspring at one time
- teleological argument

The universe is a long chain of cause and effects, this goes back to the beginning of time and time began with the creation of the universe. As the universe had a beginning it will have an end ( contingent ) a contingent universe needs a necessary being this being god. God must be distinct from the universe to create it ( e.g. U can't make a box while being in the box )
- cosmological argument aquinas



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There is no design in evoloution only the appearance of design.Take a cheetah for example.It looks perfectly designed for running at fast speeds.But thats because its ancestors were those best adapted to running.They survived.The ancestors who were not good at running,didn't catch prey so they died and didn't leave children.So those cheetah ancestors that survived were the best at running as they could catch prey and they passed this ability onto their children.So a cheetah looks designed for running but in reality thats just because it is the best adapted to its environment.

The teological argument also has flaws.Cause and effect only applies inside this universe.Its a law of this universe.But before the universe existed none of those laws have to apply.Cause and effect doesn't apply before the universe because its a law of this universe.How can cause and effect apply if there is no universe? Cause and effect need not apply to the creation of the universe.Whatever the universe came from would surely be outside the universe where cause and effect is not a law.
Original post by Robby2312
There is no design in evoloution only the appearance of design.Take a cheetah for example.It looks perfectly designed for running at fast speeds.But thats because its ancestors were those best adapted to running.They survived.The ancestors who were not good at running,didn't catch prey so they died and didn't leave children.So those cheetah ancestors that survived were the best at running as they could catch prey and they passed this ability onto their children.So a cheetah looks designed for running but in reality thats just because it is the best adapted to its environment.

The teological argument also has flaws.Cause and effect only applies inside this universe.Its a law of this universe.But before the universe existed none of those laws have to apply.Cause and effect doesn't apply before the universe because its a law of this universe.How can cause and effect apply if there is no universe? Cause and effect need not apply to the creation of the universe.Whatever the universe came from would surely be outside the universe where cause and effect is not a law.


We know nothing of what 'laws' may or may not exist outside the universe. It is the atheist's *faith* that causation is not necessary, and the theist's that it is. I know which I find more likely. Something from nothing is absurd.

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(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by That'sGreat
There is the same amount of evidence for God existing as there is for a magic unicorn blessing my balls to explode into glitter at the same time every year, except only I can see it. If you can't disprove it then obviously it must be right.


The universe and aspects of it are the evidence of God. In this sense there is a lot of evidence for God - you may find it unconvincing, but to keep banging on about how there's the same evidence for God as for unicorns is really rather silly. There are more types of evidence than direct experience, remember.

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